The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

[PTeppic]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I've now seen the trailer for part 2: my hopes are fading fast.

 

[chopper]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

ah well, our experiences of continuous disappointment help to explain why we are all wanting to write something better

 

[Dave]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

That epic performance was Brian Blessed, as I recall with a light shudder.
Dalton played Prince Barin, King of Arboria, the Forest Planet...



I was wondering if Dalton was The Valeyard...

Sorry, you are correct, he was Prince Barin. (I blame too many mince pies!)

He looks like the Valeyard.

That is interesting regarding the points made about the Time Lords, because they ARE always shown as bad guys, and so this turn of events would not be that much different.

The idea of them being guardians of Time and Time policemen - doesn't that go back to 'The War Games' when the Doctor was told to stop meddling in Earth's affairs. And in 'Trial of a Time Lord' they tried him again, accused of "conduct unbecoming a Time Lord" and transgressing the First Law of Time.

And yet every other Time Lord we ever see meddles in Time much more than he ever does and they are often completely corrupt. What exactly is conduct becoming a Time Lord?

(to add to that list I think the meddling monk in 'The Vikings' is also considered to be a Time Lord, though at that point they had not yet been given a name.)

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton - given the way that the Doctor almost went off the rails at the end of the 'Water of Mars' episode, maybe this is going to be a theme?

 

[thaddeus6th]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I hope the Time Lords don't all disappear/die/get locked in time etc ad nauseum having reappeared. It would be a dire cop-out, similar to the "Look, he's regenerating! Actually, it's just a trick. Hahaha, I am very witty, tee hee" nonsense.

It could be good. But given my near 100% dislike of previous RTD finales I'd be surprised.

 

[Dave]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I hope the Time Lords don't all disappear/die/get locked in time etc ad nauseum having reappeared.

I know what you mean, but even if they do, just like the Daleks and the Master they will somehow survive. That is the almost 'dishonest' part I dislike the most about the recent stories.

I just watched this first episode again. It wasn't quite as bad as I said earlier. I do like Bernard Cribbins as an assistant, there was some story, and some of the one-liners were actually funny. The Master again spoke of the red grass of Gallifrey and childhood together. Not sure about the Time Lords new Council Chamber straight out of 'The Phantom Menace' and the Forced lightening. And I got a little sick of the Master's menacing laughing and the jumping like a flea.

Who is the woman at the Church who disappeared, and then spoke again to Wilfred on the TV? Is she a Time Lord too? If so, she must be a 'good' Time Lord.

 

[thaddeus6th]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Could be Romana.

 

[Pyan]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Could be - less likely, it could be Susan Foreman...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I saw the first part last night, when it was finally broadcast on BBC America. I thought it was a bit slow-moving and difficult to follow, by far not my favorite episode, but I'll wait and see if the finale redeems it.

I do want to know the answer to the Doctor's question about Wilf: Why is he so important that he keeps on reappearing? And it would be nice if somehow Donna's connection with the Ood consciousness allowed her to retain her memories and not burn up.

 

[PTeppic]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Who is the woman at the Church who disappeared, and then spoke again to Wilfred on the TV? Is she a Time Lord too? If so, she must be a 'good' Time Lord.

I was assuming that too. In any large enough group there's a "bad egg", so if the group is nominally bad to start with (albeit not necessarily their own view) then the bad egg is actually "good".

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I wasn't altogether certain she was to be trusted when she told him not to tell the Doctor. Is this really for the Doctor's own good?

 

[littlemissattitude]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I do want to know the answer to the Doctor's question about Wilf: Why is he so important that he keeps on reappearing? And it would be nice if somehow Donna's connection with the Ood consciousness allowed her to retain her memories and not burn up.

My favorite speculation on that (which has come from die-hard Whovians) is that there's a fob-watch around somewhere and that Wilf is actually a Time Lord who is in hiding as a human. If that were the case, it might bode well for Donna's being able to both remember and survive.

 

[Dave]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

If Wilf is a Time Lord, and Donna is 1/4 Time Lord, then the mother is also 1/2 Time Lord.

I have no idea what that means, I'm just pointing it out.

 

[Harry Kilmer]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Could he be a future incarnation of the Doctor?

I really wish they'd kept David Jacobi on as the Master.

 

[littlemissattitude]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

If Wilf is a Time Lord, and Donna is 1/4 Time Lord, then the mother is also 1/2 Time Lord.

I have no idea what that means, I'm just pointing it out.

Yeah, well, that's really where the speculation breaks down, isn't it? I mean, since Donna's mother is affected by the Master's turning himself into everyone in the human race aside from (as far as we've seen) Donna and Wilf.

By the way, I've just finished re-watching the first episode of The End of Time, and I think the re-watch was worth it. I liked it fairly well the first time, but there was a lot going on and parts of it were confusing. A second viewing of it sorted a lot of that confusion.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I'm guessing that Donna's resistance to the Master is because of her connection to the Ood, nothing to do with Wilf (therefore nothing to do with her mother).

So that still leaves the fob-watch as an intriguing theory.

Although I suspect that Wilf's significance will turn out to be something more convoluted than that.

 

[steve12553]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I've seen all the Doctors including both movie incarnations but this will be the first time that I knew a regeneration was coming. Looks like fun.

 

[Dave]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I've seen all the Doctors including both movie incarnations but this will be the first time that I knew a regeneration was coming. Looks like fun.

Really? I've also watched Doctor Who since I was old enough to sit up. I thought that Ecclestone's regeneration to Tennant was very well promoted in advance, and I seem to remember many of the others were known well in advance. The major difference today is the Internet, where rumour can spread like a wildfire, but I also don't remember a time when spoilers were so commonly shown on TV magazine programmes and even on national News reports. There was, at the very least, an attempt to keep future story-lines unspoiled. The only real shocker was the very first regeneration. I don't think any viewers knew that was going to happen and it was a big surprise. Some fans never recovered.

 

[Harry Kilmer]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Is that timelord fellow who just approached Timothy Dalton the chap who played the alternate Dave Lister in the Red Dwarf Episode "The Inquisitor"

I've seen this bit in Star Wars. Or was it V?

Weeping angels of old? A reference to Blink?

Also, Twitter is fun. Some gems from #drwho

"The Doctor's just turned up at my place as well, I just told him to piss off and hurry up and die"
"Return of the King had fewer endings"
" Why do we never see James Bond regenerating"

 

[thaddeus6th]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

The plot was reasonable, and would've fitted nicely into a single episode. Stretching it out was unnecessary.

Also, the ending was self-indulgent, and, as above, it reminded me of the Lord of the Rings.

 

[blacknorth]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

You really think the plot was reasonable? How did they get the guns and engine working on that ship? How far did he fall? How were the Time Lords defeated again? What conveniently happened to the Master? It was godawful, full of holes.

But the first glimpse of Smith was amusing - like watching a five-year old in a nativity play, he showed about that much acting ability. Embarrassing.

I did like the whole thing with Cribbins and the chamber - ring of truth about it and Tennant played it right - disgusted then resigned to it.