The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

[Urien]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Great for a kids' show. Huge plot holes for an adult show.

Now we have a Blue Peter presenter as the Doctor; had to happen, I struggle to find a BBC show where the central characters or presenters have got older... Having said that I'm immediately able to contradict myself, "Spooks", the key actors are older than series one.

Having holed my central thesis, I shall return to knowing nothing for certain.

 

[thaddeus6th]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

The Doctor has, right from the start, tended to get younger. Needn't be a bad thing. We'll have to wait and see. With Moffat doing most of the writing we can hope the new fellow has a better set of scripts than Tennant.

But, as has been expressed before, flashy effects are no substitute for a proper plot and good acting. Genesis of the Daleks > The Doctor-Donna.

 

[Pyan]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Any one else noticed that Bernard Cribben's character name, Wilfrid Mott, is an anagram of WTF? - Time Lord!...

Perhaps we haven't seen the last of him, after all...


According to the BBC, 10.6 people watched the last of David Tennant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8437562.stm

 

[PTeppic]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

True, but this was the chance to lay your goods out for display. If you don't make a very good job of doing that you may loose those customers for ever.

On "Confidential", Euros Lynn (director), said he had more meetings about this same, very short section, than he had for the whole of the rest of the two-parter. They were very much aware the importance of the first minute of air-time, the dialogue, direction, effects, even down to whether Confidential were there to film it (they were). Steven Moffat was on set, so it seems likely he had written the lines, rather than RTD. Perhaps the legs/arms/fingers stuff was balancing out some of CE's lines from just before his regeneration into DT: "it's a bit dodgy this process", i.e. it seems totally uncontrollable. Perhaps he really does have to count his limbs afterwards? [Unlikely I know, given how many TLs we've seen who are humanoid.] And the ginger was a follow-up to the (presumably) at-Chris-Evans quip DT used to Rose (played by ex-Mrs-Evans Billie Piper) Tyler. [In case anyone hadn't know. Okay, so you did. But might not have.] Finally, let's not forget that DT's first words, I believe, "Hmmm. New teeth."

 

[PTeppic]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Unlikely to be the Doctor's Mother. If memory serves, the DOctor himself is a weird pseudo-mix of the Other (who shared power with Rassilon and Omega) and new genetic material. My guess would be Romana.

Interestingly, a BBC news article about the episode quotes the Guardian's reviewer:

"In common with the prince of Denmark, the Time Lord from Gallifrey agonised aloud over whether it would be right to kill a man (the Master) after a painful encounter with his mother, played by Claire Bloom, whose Shakespearean roles include Hamlet's mother, Gertrude," he wrote.

Claire Bloom is indeed the actress credited as "The Woman", and she does have a history (going back to 1948!) of playing in "Hamlet".

Curiously, the identity of the woman wasn't mentioned, so far as I could see, on either episode of "Confidential". Interesting?

 

[Vladd67]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Reading comments on line it's sad how many people are saying they will never watch again and writing off the new guy after such a sort appearance.

 

[nixie]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I liked it, its a kids programme that appeals to some adults. Yes there was a lot of big holes in the plot but still enjoyable. Anyway everyone knows the ultimate doctor is Tom Baker even if my big brother tries to argue and say it was Jon Pertwee. Poor Matt Smith, he's been slated after a few words give him a chance.

 

[chopper]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

nixie has it spot on. it is, after all, a kids' show that some of us are still watching *coff* years later.

personally i quite enjoyed the breakneck first 45 minutes, but after that the thing could have been 15 minutes shorter. the inclusion of so many past recurring characters was mawkish rather than emotional; i know DT's Dr "didn't want to go", but it seemed even more extended than the 56 fake endings of Lord of the Rings.

talking of big (plot) holes in space: whaddya reckon escaped before the temporal oojawotsitthingummy closed again? bound to be at least some old faces cropping up again at some point...

enjoyed Dalton's scenery-chewing. i must be in a minority in that.

 

[blacknorth]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

In the meantime a planet full of time lords stand in a room for a good ten minutes and none of them think to do anything but stand there while some nutter (the same nutter that locked them up mind) decides what he's going to shoot. Do these scripts ever get critiqued.

Imagine how it would get torn to shreds if they dared to place on the site.

Can't someone get the BBC to try one?

This absolutely infuriated me. After all the alleged ingenuity of organising their return, they just stand around while some fool with a mysteriously recocking revolver dithers. Then it turns out they can be despatched with a single bullet.

Regarding the planet - I get really worried that people will think RTD and the series is originating these images. Fritz Leiber's The Wanderer begins with just such a scenario and fully follows the implication - planet Earth wrecked. If they ever made a film of The Wanderer I have no doubt there would be a lot of Who fans wandering around saying they'd ripped off Doctor Who. The important difference is that Leiber did it right and RTD did it wrong.

As for the business of saying they can get away with it because it's a kid's show that adults happen to watch too, well, it is not a kid's show anymore - it's a family show. The revival has changed the nature of the demographic and the BBC and the scriptwriters need to take account of that rather than using the show's origins as an excuse to put out any old nonsense. Mark Lawson's on the Guardian website comparing it with Hamlet. So which is it? They can't have it both ways.

 

[Vladd67]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Saw a post on twitter that said the only people who didn't like the final episodes were people who had watched it in the 70s and didn't realise it had changed as a programme. I thought that perhaps we have higher standards?

 

[Ursa major]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Any one else noticed that Bernard Cribben's character name, Wilfred Mott, is an anagram of WTF? - Time Lord!...

Perhaps we haven't seen the last of him, after all...

Nice One!

According to the BBC, 10.6 people watched the last of David Tennant.

That doesn't seem to be very many (and one of those may have been a bit fractious).

 

[thaddeus6th]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I didn't watch it in the 70s, mostly because I was born in the 80s.

It has changed. The special effects are better and the writing is not.

 

[Ursa major]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Regarding the planet - I get really worried that people will think RTD and the series is originating these images. Fritz Leiber's The Wanderer begins with just such a scenario and fully follows the implication - planet Earth wrecked. If they ever made a film of The Wanderer I have no doubt there would be a lot of Who fans wandering around saying they'd ripped off Doctor Who. The important difference is that Leiber did it right and RTD did it wrong.

And there's always When Worlds Collide (1951):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Worlds_Collide_(film)
​

* Awaits JD's list of 50+ books and films which dealt with this subject before 1951. *

 

[blacknorth]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

And there's always When Worlds Collide (1951):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Worlds_Collide_(film)
​

* Awaits JD's list of 50+ books and films which dealt with this subject before 1951. *

heh-heh. I loved When Worlds Collide. I picked out The Wanderer because I think Leiber did it best.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

Any one else noticed that Bernard Cribben's character name, Wilfrid Mott, is an anagram of WTF? - Time Lord!...

Perhaps we haven't seen the last of him, after all...


According to the BBC, 10.6 people watched the last of David Tennant.

BBC News - Doctor Who finale watched by 10.4m as Tennant bows out

Oh god god I hope we have - please, please, please can we assume this character has been done away with.

I'm sorry but every time I see him I remember the absolute **** up the first film was.

I expected him to break into song at any minute - in fact didn't he at one stage.

It makes you wish the end was over, not just nigh.

 

[chopper]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

good grief, TEIn, don't go wishing away the short time we have left!

 

[Pyan]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

According to the BBC, 10.6 people watched the last of David Tennant.

That doesn't seem to be very many (and one of those may have been a bit fractious).

Duh! I meant 10.6 million, of course...

(searches for his copy of "Howe too lern to tipe - in tenn eezy lesons")

 

[ctg]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I have to admit it was very badly written, and TEIN is absolutely right to say that they should've popped the script here to be shredded in pieces before RDT puts its out. He had what over a year to write 75 pages? There wasn't that many scenes, was there? Who is his story editor, or doesn't BBC use them any more?

 

[Dave]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

I think I must have been the 0.6 person watching!

Now we have a Blue Peter presenter as the Doctor; had to happen.

I'm obviously too old. I remember Peter Purvis.

As for the other comments: This isn't hard SF. It is fun and it is corny and I like it. And it is for kids and kids love it.

 

[Ursa major]

re: The End of Time (pts 1&2): Final DT episodes

It has time travel, so it's not really hard SF.

(And time travellers - no, lords of time - who have need of a seer and prophesies, for goodness sake. * shakes head *)