GOT discussion for aSoIaF readers (SPOILERS)

[Eulalia]

I did not like Cat much from the books, even though she is a heroic woman at times. They left out "it should have been you" and persuading Ned to go to King's Landing. They had her be much more reasonable in her assumptions about the Lannisters.

They had Jaime justify his behavior with Aerys early on, and had Ned overreact. He was a good sport with Tyrion, even amusing. Even his incest with Cersei could have been more jovial, but I think they were restrained with his emotionality. (but not always the camera angles for the sex scenes)

They showed Ned making mistakes quite plainly and directly.

By that time in the book, I was convinced that the Hound was a bad guy.

We shall see!

 

[Mesanna]

Sorry, Imp, but I must agree with Eulalia, particularly about Jaime. In the books, until his chat with Catelyn in Riverrun dungeon, you don't really get any positive vibes about Jaime, apart from the fact he's kind to Tyrion. He is the child-hurting guy who's doing his sister and is responsible for the death of Jory. However, already in the TV series, we've had him explaining and justifying his actions, e.g. when he tells Ned that he watched his father & brother burn, and stabbing Aerys felt like justice. I don't think you get anything like that in the books until much, much later.

I actually wish they would just flat-out make him the guy that the audience loves to hate, so that his turnaround is all the more profound (as it is in the books). But maybe it's not so easily conveyed on TV.

Update: Oops Eulalia, I didn't see your latest post, you've mentioned some of the things I've said above. Sorry for the duplication!

 

[The Imp]

Messana and Eulalia

While i agree with much of what you both said, Jaime's feeble attempt to justify his killing Aerys remains IMO feeble, and when I'm looking for people to hate, usually it's going to be the guy that threw the kid out of the window or broke a scared aoth and committed regicide, no matter what the justification.

The Hound was more hatable in the book, but he doesn't make a lot of friends when he's seen bringing back Micah after killing him.

 

[Eulalia]

Messana, no problem.

Imp, I just think they are being a little more ambiguous with the characters, so perhaps the developments are not such a shocker. Although Cersei seems crazy right off.

And I do like Catelyn more in the TV series, not how I pictured her exactly in the books, but more likeable, to my taste. The acting is strong, so perhaps they intended it.

When you read the books, regicide seems humanitarian in this instance!

And just to mess our minds up, they have that whole rebellion, thousands of deaths including the noble Rhaegar and Arthur Dayne (with BFS on the wrong side) and they end up with a dissapated Robert, with a loathsome Joffrey as the named heir. I think GRRM is giving us a Hobson's choice, with no clear answers. Then he leaves the bloodline up to a coin flip-- Dany okay, Visaerys not okay.

 

[C Of K]

It would be interesting to hear what people who haven't read the books think about Jaime at this point. I must admit, that even as he was justifying himself to Lady Stark in the books, I still did not buy into his sincerity. The stuff he said made sense, but deep down I still thought of him as a sleazeball. He had to show me something more than words before I began to think of him as a more heroic character.

I think the same goes for the onscreen performance. Until he shows the audience that he can be honorable, I don't think many viewers who haven't read the books will see him as anything more than an antagonistic oath breaker.

 

[Eulalia]

Let's see.

Jaime-- 25% dashing knight, 25% idealist, 25% Lannister, 25% sleaseball? We need a four sided coin? Maybe just two sides--Lannister/true knight? Depends if Cersei or Brienne is in the acsendent.

 

[Delran Stark]

Let's see.

Jaime-- 25% dashing knight, 25% idealist, 25% Lannister, 25% sleaseball? We need a four sided coin? Maybe just two sides--Lannister/true knight? Depends if Cersei or Brienne is in the acsendent.

At this point, I think we can safely ditch Cersei.

 

[svalbard]

Anyone notice that Jaime's speech to Cersei in the Eps. 3 is actually from A Storm of Swords when he is remembering his past.It makes sense to put it into the first series because that is when it actually said it Cersei. and his 'Burn' speech is taken from A Clash of Kings. I think we are going to see a lot of this as the series writers attempt to build characters and context for the storyline.

 

[Ursa major]

* Wonders if viewers will recognise some of the dialogue when they come to read ADWD. *



I suppose this is inevitable, given GRRM's strict POV approach and the presence of characters in AGOT who don't become POVs until the later books.

(I daresay the producers and writers of Season Two will be scouring ADWD for, say, relavant material on Melisandre.)

 

[Brian G Turner]

Regarding Jaime - I suspect the writing is already preparing us to follow him as a POV character in later series, hence the more focused and sympathetic development of his character in season 1.

 

[Needle]

I too think they are preparing us to like Jaime a little more, a little sooner. Plus it still (for us loyal readers) remains to be seen just how important Jaime is likely to become. AFFC leaves us truly hanging, Cersei imprisoned for murder, treason, and fornication, yet so far Tommen has not been challenged for his crown, will he be? by whom? will Jaime protect him? will Jaime try to be his father at this late date?

If my understanding of ADWD is correct we will not be revisiting King's Landing. Since it only took 6 years to finish ADWD we could all die of old age before these questions are answered! One more reason will all need to root for good ratings for GoT on HBO!

 

[Delran Stark]

The 3 eyed crow!!!! Now winter is coming!!
Ser Gregor has arrived! What a scary fellow!!
Can't wait to see Sandor beat the crap out of Gregor.
And them "KING IN THE NORTH!"

 

[The Imp]

The 3 eyed crow!!!! Now winter is coming!!
Ser Gregor has arrived! What a scary fellow!!
Can't wait to see Sandor beat the crap out of Gregor.
And them "KING IN THE NORTH!"

I loved the opening.

I have to keep reminding myself that there's so much story they have to tell with dialogue that was just just described in the books. Although I hated the Viserys scene, it gave a lot of useful information to viewers, and didn't change the course of the story in any way, so no harm, no foul.

 

[Eulalia]

Okay, so I asked my husband who has only read TGOT and didn't like it ( ), what he thought of Jaime in the TV series. He said that he thought he was a bad guy but he hadn't mad up his mind about him and gave him a 5/10 for badness. He said he couldn't overlook the incest with his queen...

He is really enjoying the TV series. He didn't like the book because it has more description and less action than he normally likes--though he reads fantasy and Sci Fi to relax. I believe the incest and perhaps the death of Lady and exile of Nymeria put him off, too, in the books, since it is more prolonged. He grew up with German Shepards, including pups, and I think that really got to him. But he is liking the condensed action, not having to work through all the description, and he is laughing a lot in all the right places. I won't speak to the T&A.

 

[The Imp]

Okay, so I asked my husband who has only read TGOT and didn't like it ( ), what he thought of Jaime in the TV series. He said that he thought he was a bad guy but he hadn't mad up his mind about him and gave him a 5/10 for badness. He said he couldn't overlook the incest with his queen...

He is really enjoying the TV series. He didn't like the book because it has more description and less action than he normally likes--though he reads fantasy and Sci Fi to relax. I believe the incest and perhaps the death of Lady and exile of Nymeria put him off, too, in the books, since it is more prolonged. He grew up with German Shepards, including pups, and I think that really got to him. But he is liking the condensed action, not having to work through all the description, and he is laughing a lot in all the right places. I won't speak to the T&A.

Ask him for me how tossing Bran out of the window doesn't earn him at least a 9/10, forgetting about the incest and murder of Aerys. He still hasen't seen the Jory incident though, that should raise the score a tad.

Also, as we all know, he doesn't know the EXTENT of the incest.

 

[Eulalia]

Yes, of course, Imp, he didn't like the Bran incident either! I think the Aerys murder left a big question mark on TV. There was also the first kill conversation and it was established that Jaime was one of the warriors, (and Robert did not come off sympathetically at all) and saw Jaime holding his temper with Robert( who was just shown being an arse with Lancel)undas Robert berated him. I do think in spite of the events to the contrary, Jaime is being portrayed through voice and expression (which carry a lot of weight in a visual medium), as not an arch villain. In the books he is more arrogant, and, what is the word, saucy?

As well, the second scene in the first episode shows Ned (who is portrayed as good guy, torn, and making mistakes) cutting the head off a poor sod, and not believing his warnings. The bar is low.

Jaime has had to cope with a tremendous amount, in the books. He has good motivations along with the bad, even with the worst of his actions, considering especially the standards of the world that he lives in. (Incest is not so unthinkable, violence is common at any age) Aerys is more of a villain to me.

What other things that are emphasized in the TV series that might hint at events to come?

Arya says she doesn't hate Sansa and promises her Dad that she will not stab her. Sansa wants to be queen.Tyrion and Jon are shown, prominently, getting along with Tyrion mentoring Jon.

So far I'm very happy with the acting as regards Dany, Ned, Catelyn, Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Robert, Visaerys, Cersei, Jaime, Jorah, Serio, Old Nan, Aemon, oh shoot, the head Ranger, and the direwolves.

 

[The Imp]

Eulalia

Posts such as yours are the reason this is my all time favorite internet forum

Wasn't Old Nan wonderful telling Bran that story?

I asked my wife whom she thought were the 3 most dispicable characters in the series so far (she has not seen epi 4 yet btw). Her choices were Jaime, Viserys followed by Cersei. I then asked her why Jaime. Her biggest reason was the Bran incident.

Just saying, not saying any one answer is right.

 

[Needle]

I was beyond thrilled to see the three eyed crow!

Yes Imp, Old Nan was great,she could tell me stories all day long!

My husband too is a lover of fantasy who just could not get into GoT, he didn't like the changing POV's (which is 1 of the things I like best!) I think he is hooked on the show though. he knows from listening to my son and I talk that something is coming for Viserys (we refuse to tell him what!) and keeps asking when is she (Dany) gonna deal with that ass! I assure him he will get his from Drogo, probly next week! I am loving watching the Dany we all know and love appear before my eyes.

As to Jaime, I agree with Eulalia, that Robert (who I never much cared for anyway) is made out to be such a total ass that everyone around him seems better by comparison.

 

[The Imp]

Just for you Needle

 

[Conor]

Wish I had more time to talk-

I loved the opening scene, but was hoping to see the Crow talk. One of my favorite lines was "Say do you have any corn?" I know a different dream..the one where Brans dreams about falling.

Hated Viscery's bathtub scene!! I think they could have conveyed the info another way?

Should be good to see Araya hunting cats and finding the dragon skulls!