Who's your favourite non-POV character?

I agree that Varys is very much a main charcter.

And my God, no one has mentioned everyone's favorite, Dolorous Edd??? :D

Guys, I totally forgot about Ed. It's a shame!
By the way, yes I read all the published books, so spoilers can't hurt me :) Except the new Theon chapter, a hadn't got time.
Thank you for the welcome.
 
Definitely Tywin, and the guy who always says "Har!" I find Missandei also quite interesting, she is far to politically-savy for such a little girl.
 
Bronn was my favourite for the first 2 books. Then he just got a bit lordly and boring and disappeared.
Dolorous Edd would probably get my vote. Though since ADwD, Moqorro has shown himself to be a bit of a badass. In my mind I always envision him as Michael Clarke Duncan with Samuel L Jackson's voice.
 
Probably the Hound.

And my favorite bit character is definitely Shitmouth.
 
I always envision him as Michael Clarke Duncan with Samuel L Jackson's voice.
Scary.

Tywin, Griff, Randyll Tarly, Barristan, Doran, Jeor, Kevan... leaders and commanders appeal to me. Heck, I even like Mace, Euron, Stannis, Daven, Roose, Robert, and Walder for being leaders. But not Robb... never Robb. One character I really would have liked to have a good view of was Jon Arryn.

I kinda wish we'd not gotten Cersei's POV. I loved her as a distant trainwreck.

As for the others... Jorah, Joffrey, Baelish, Hodor, and Shitmouth.

Sometimes Martin kills me with the simplicity that he names his characters... "I've got this character who curses incessantly... What should I name him? How 'bout... Shitmouth. Hmmm, what about the character that only says hodor? Ooooh, how about... Hodor?" Satin, Black Bernarr, Brown Bernarr, the Old Bear, Big Liddle, Middle Liddle, Little Liddle, Littlefinger, Nimble Dick, Wench, Kingslayer... He does not often go down the path of The Titan's ******* or Ser Barristan the Bold. Most fantasy is written about a hero named Kickassidor or Beatdownicus the Brave. If you've never seen the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 video featuring a compilations of The Many Names of David Ryder, then do yourself a favor and watch it immediately.... if not sooner. Big McLargehuge might be my favorite.
 
hodor? HOdor. HoDOR. HODOR. c:

Dolorous Edd. Irate Ser Alliser Thorne. Tormund. Wun-wun the giant. Benjen Stark.

The Late-comers: Donal Noye, The Sword of the Morning Arthur Dayne, Old Bear Jeor Mormont, Jon Arryn, Rodrik Cassel, The Starks: Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna, and Rhaegar Targaryen. I love them dead characters.

C;
 
Just reading through the whole thread;

As Varys is one of the only characters that knows as much as GRRM, it would be highly unlikely for him to have a POV until perhaps the last instant!

The scene in A Game Of Thrones TV series where Arya overhead him talking with Illyrio was dramatically different than two strangers from Arya's POV in the book.
 
Hmmm, thats a hard one. Why did GRRM have to create so many interesting characters? :)

not Robb... never Robb.

Boaz, may I ask why you didn't like Robb?

(WARNING SPOILERS)

I thought that Robb is a really interesting character, showing a person who was motivated by honour, and personal loss, who could lead an army (realtively successfully) but ultimately sucumbed to following his heart over his head. I guess it served as a subtle reminder that we as humans, all make mistakes, even Kings. I understand that he was selfish. He chose love over political stability and put his own desires above those of his subjects, ultimately caring for no-one but himself. But in the end he paid for his decision, with his life. It would have been nice to see him with his own POV chapters before the Red Wedding.
 
Tim, of course you may. The reason I don't have much love for Robb, Jon, and Dany is that I've read, what seems like, hundreds of stories about teenage heroes. Some of the most popular fantasy series feature young people on the cusp of maturity who somehow seem to have more wisdom, strength, and willpower than anyone else in the story... The Wheel of Time, Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, David Eddings' Belgariad, Raymond Feist's never ending Riftwar, Eragon, Acacia, The Chronicles of Narnia, Earthsea, Prydain, and Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn are the first that come to mind. Heck, even Merry and Pippin are considered minors in Hobbit society.

I enjoyed reading about teenagers when I was one. But those days are long gone. I have enjoyed Robin Hobb's character Fitz and Patrick Rothfuss' Kvothe. Even though they're young, they are far from perfect. They are forced to make questionable moral choices. Redemption and hope are two of my favorite themes at this point in my life.

Redeeming the world is one thing. Any teenage savior will do. Personal atonement is another thing altogether. It takes a broken character to admit to needing saving.

Robb is young, handsome, rich, powerful, skilled at arms, steeped in warfare, born to command... and he's a king... and he has a pet direwolf. Poor kid. He has so much to overcome in life... it's too bad he was not dealt a better hand.

Robb makes political mistakes, yes. But they are not moral failures. Jorah, on the other hand engaged in slavery. Jaime defenstrated a young boy. Theon has killed people he liked to further his own ambitions. Sandor has used the excuse of serving the Lannisters to murder. All of them appeal to me more than Robb, because they all acknowledge their broken vows, their lack of scruples, their own selfishness. They all desire redemption. They know they need to atone for their sins. Will they actually do it? I dunno, but it makes for great characters.
 
Yes, what you put so well, Boaz. Robb is also a well beloved, legitimate oldest son. He does end up paying for Eddard and Catelyn's mistakes as well, though, as part of the tragedy. So I suppose he is trying to atone for that.

Jon lives as a *******. Dany is terrorized by her bother and is married to a barbarian. I guess that is what makes the story so good.

Non POV character? There are so many to choose from. Today it's Natalie/Margaery.
 
Let me speak up for Robb since everyone seems to be dissing on him recently.

Robb does the right and honorable thing (plunging his nation into war over principles) despite it seeming like an absolutely hopeless and suicidal undertaking. I understand that isn't too out of line with what other teenage hero-characters are expected to do from other books, but what really got me was the way that Eddard's influence came out in his son to move him down this road.

The series starts with Eddard beheading a man in front of his sons so that they can learn a lesson. Winter is Coming and his young wolves needed to learn to fight and survive on their own. As his children have been scattered to the four corners of the world they will each survive and thrive in their own way as the Starks have for thousands of years due to the upbringing that Eddard gave them. Robb was the most powerful manifestation of this theme, and that's why his death was very hard for me to take.
 
Let me speak up for Robb since everyone seems to be dissing on him recently.

Robb does the right and honorable thing (plunging his nation into war over principles) despite it seeming like an absolutely hopeless and suicidal undertaking. I understand that isn't too out of line with what other teenage hero-characters are expected to do from other books, but what really got me was the way that Eddard's influence came out in his son to move him down this road.

The series starts with Eddard beheading a man in front of his sons so that they can learn a lesson. Winter is Coming and his young wolves needed to learn to fight and survive on their own. As his children have been scattered to the four corners of the world they will each survive and thrive in their own way as the Starks have for thousands of years due to the upbringing that Eddard gave them. Robb was the most powerful manifestation of this theme, and that's why his death was very hard for me to take.

Yea, what he said!! Good job Tywin!
 
Thanks Needle.

To add to my previous thought: Robb had to die in order for the other Stark children to be truly alone and left to their own devices in the world. There is no safety net for them.
 
I liked Robb, and was pretty shocked about the Red Wedding. I guess, because Ned was so involved in AGOT, that I thought the series would be the Stark Family album. I never picked up on him being a teenager, not through stupidity, but through the fact of the Medieval society's "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" mentality. At the age of 16 (or probably 14 in some cases) a boy is well and truly a man. Lets face it not many people in the 7 kingdoms are going to reach 30 at the moment, are they?

That makes him middle-aged already, so I have no truck with him being a teenage hero. His death was to further put forward Frey as a backstabber, making Catelyn's view of him correct.

Dany, well she's a woman too, not a girl. I'm reminded of Elizabeth I "I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman....." paraphrased of course so not a true quote. My point is that its not age, especially in medieval type settings, that set the person's role, but ability and actions. Hence, Bran, although a child, is broken and is about to take root with the weirwoods, so now he is taken out of the age-ist argument, as he will be age-less.

Arya - still a child (at the moment) but with a woman's capacity for scorn and revenge. Her innocence is gone, the first casualty of any war.

Sansa - she is slowly losing her innocence, but in some ways is more of a child than Arya or Bran, but she will be playing her part soon enough.

When we suspend our disbelief in order to read a book, we have to take on the laws and customs of the world we are entering, and leave our own lives at the front page. When in Westeros, do as the Westerosi do!
 
Tywin, excellent comment regarding the mistakes of the parents. That is why I don't hate GRRM's teenagers. I just don't find them as interesting as most of the adult characters. Don't get me wrong, I do not hate Robb. I was shocked by the Red Wedding. I was sorry to see Robb go. I did not, nor do I now, want Tywin, Joffrey, or Cersei to win.

Tyrion has a thought, when meeting Oberyn, that I'll paraphrase "We are all still fighting the conflicts of our parents."

If Aerys II had wed Rhaegar to Cersei, if Brandon was not so hot headed, if Rhaegar had taken power before Jon Arryn raised his banners, if Lyanna had not died... If only Eddard could have told Catelyn, Robb, and Jon about Jon's parentage, then Catelyn would have loved him more, Robb might not have married Jeyne, and Jon might not have taken the black. Of course, Robert probably would have killed Jon if he knew Eddard was not his father.

I've posted this elsewhere, years ago, but I contend that Eddard did not live up to the words Winter is Coming. I believe that he failed to adequately prepare his children for the hard times. Yes, he gave Robb the best military, judicial, and economic education that the North could afford, but Robb needed some lessons in southern politics, especially in the bedroom.

Sansa also lacked any practical education. All she learned were fairy tales. It's awful, but she was complicit in her father's death.

On the other hand, Tywin Lannister, that heartless manipulator, taught two of his children the harsh realities of life. He coddled Jaime and Jaime was stolen away. Cersei and Tyrion may not have had a choice to be political animals, but you cannot say they were not prepared for it. Cersei just does not have the wisdom to see her limitations. But both of them know the realities of politics, "You win or you die." Both of them know about bedroom politics. Neither of them kill for honor, only for expediency.

I understand that in a perfect world you'd never have to tell your children to beware of treachery, whores, liars, rapists, murderers, and lions. But Eddard of all people knew. He knew Rickard. He knew Brandon. He knew Lyanna. He knew Elia.

I understand that Eddard loved his children and wished them joy. The problem is that there are many people wishing them harm. Eddard knew Gregor. He knew Tywin. He knew Aerys II. He knew the Kingslayer.

I admire Eddard. He strove to live and die with honor. He never sought vengeance upon innocents. He protected the weak, the orphans, and the widows. He loved his wife, his children, and his friends. He rewarded loyalty and punished treachery. He kept his oaths. He kept the promise to his dying sister... If he'd shared that promise with Catelyn, Robb, and Jon, he might still be alive or they might all be dead.

I believe that one promise kept him from fully preparing Catelyn, Robb, and Jon from the coming winter.

Tywin, also a great point regarding Robb as a safety net for his siblings. Bran was the first to suffer for the mistakes of Eddard and Catelyn, but Robb paid the ultimate price. Now Bran, Sansa, Rickon, and Arya are scattered to the winds. Arya was more interesting than Sansa up until she left Westeros... now I find Sansa much more intriguing. Players interest me more than ninjas.

Just my two cents.
 

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