So what's the latest crackpot theory?

[Koopa]

 

[Koopa]

oops, ended up bigger than anticipated
And yes, i used to play pokemon for hours

 

[Boaz]

Welcome, PB. Varys=Egg? I dunno. I've suspected that Varys is a Targ loyalist... or even a Targ ******* (Varys could be short for Vaerys or Viserys)... but as a Blackfyre? Maybe. He wants someone of Valyrian blood on the throne... If Aegon (Young Griff) is actually Illyrio's son, then Varys must know... unless Illyrio switched them and sold Aegon. In the back of my mind, I've wondered at Mero's (the Titan's *******) comment about having a prostitute who looked like Dany... what if both of Rhaegar's children were smuggled out of KL and ended up being sold by Illyrio into slavery?

 

[Koopa]

@Boaz, i wouldn't take insults at face-value though

 

[Perpertual Bran]

Thanks for the welcome

I'm not really optimistic for this theory to be honest. It's just an idea that popped into my head when Varys's head was described like an egg that one time (I reread aGoT shortly after reading The Hedge Knight). Then I read that scene where Arya witnesses Varys and Illyrio and remarks that Illyrio walks like a water dancer despite being grossly fat. I started thinking about them possibly being associated with Bravoos too, not just Pentos. Then Arya went to Bravoos and showed us how much faceless men are good at disguises, so the elephant in the room (Egg being an old guy if he was still alive) found his way out since Faceless Men (like the Waif) can stay young for a long time. Up to this point, I was considering it a silly theory for lolz and fun, but then I read The Sworn Sword and The Mystery Knight and learned more about how the realm was after the blackfyre rebellion. I realized how many people supported the black dragon and that the realm was really divided in half, and Egg wasn't as judgemental of the black dragon supporters as the rest of the Targs. The final bits were suplemented by woiaf.

But the one thing I really do believe wholeheartedly is that Illyrio is a faceless man. That entire glutton and too fat to walk is a persona he plays, not his true nature. He's probably even one of those guys Arya served in their meeting.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Disclaimer: This is not my theory. I'm only passing it on. I'm not Baoz. I don't come up with things like this. So, here is a lovely theory my sister came up with.

So, presumably Jon is dead. Since he is a warg, his spirit can overtake another person's body. That other person for the needs of this theory is Val, the Wilding Princess. Also, presumably, Jon and Aegon are twins born from the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna. And now, the ingenuity of this theory. Valon [Jon possessing Val's body] is the younger brother/now sister of Aegon. S/he in the upcoming war kills Cersei [valonqar, more beautiful than Cersei]. And afterwards marries her/his brother Aegon. So, together they rule Westeros and bring forth an age of prosperity. The end.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Welcome, PB. Varys=Egg? I dunno. I've suspected that Varys is a Targ loyalist... or even a Targ ******* (Varys could be short for Vaerys or Viserys)... but as a Blackfyre? Maybe. He wants someone of Valyrian blood on the throne... If Aegon (Young Griff) is actually Illyrio's son, then Varys must know... unless Illyrio switched them and sold Aegon. In the back of my mind, I've wondered at Mero's (the Titan's *******) comment about having a prostitute who looked like Dany... what if both of Rhaegar's children were smuggled out of KL and ended up being sold by Illyrio into slavery?

Nah. We know from Kevan's epilogue that the girl was without a doubt Rhaegar's daughter. He comments that the boy wasn't recognizable, but that the girl was unmistakeably Rhaenys. Kevan would know so it is reliable info given in a POV chapter.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Disclaimer: This is not my theory. I'm only passing it on. I'm not Baoz. I don't come up with things like this. So, here is a lovely theory my sister came up with.

So, presumably Jon is dead. Since he is a warg, his spirit can overtake another person's body. That other person for the needs of this theory is Val, the Wilding Princess. Also, presumably, Jon and Aegon are twins born from the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna. And now, the ingenuity of this theory. Valon [Jon possessing Val's body] is the younger brother/now sister of Aegon. S/he in the upcoming war kills Cersei [valonqar, more beautiful than Cersei]. And afterwards marries her/his brother Aegon. So, together they rule Westeros and bring forth an age of prosperity. The end.

so Aegon is not the REAL Aegon, but is still a son of Rhaegar? Also why would Jon take Val's body above all others. My bet (or hope) is that he is not all the way dead, but he does Warg out of his body as a kind of instinct to flee from the pain, and he wargs into WunWun. to support my paper thin theory, I give you this quote.

Hodor twice as big, twice as strong, and half as clever. ”
– Jon Snow's thoughts

Bran warging into Hodor could be foreshadowing of Jon warging into WunWun.

Nah. We know from Kevan's epilogue that the girl was without a doubt Rhaegar's daughter. He comments that the boy wasn't recognizable, but that the girl was unmistakeably Rhaenys. Kevan would know so it is reliable info given in a POV chapter.

Yes, all babies pretty much look the same, and his head was bashed into a wall, whereas Rhaenys was only stabbed (albeit she was stabbed dozens of times) while her head/face was left in tact.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

@Arsten Please don't ask me the whys about that theory. I'm still just trying to wrap my head around it. XD

There is a part in Kevan's POV where he considers whether the Aegon who landed in the South is really Rhaegar's Aegon. He says that the girl was unmistakeable, but that the boy's head was a mash of brains, blood, and skull bits. They saw a glimpse of fair hair and Tywin told them it was Aegon. Nobody questioned his word and nobody wanted to take a closer look.

 

[Koopa]

i follow the theory that Jon wargs into his wolf.
There is omething Melisandre says about Jon. She sees him as Jon, then as a wolf, then back as Jon.

 

[Eversummer]

There is a part in Kevan's POV where he considers whether the Aegon who landed in the South is really Rhaegar's Aegon. He says that the girl was unmistakeable, but that the boy's head was a mash of brains, blood, and skull bits. They saw a glimpse of fair hair and Tywin told them it was Aegon. Nobody questioned his word and nobody wanted to take a closer look.

Well, Srylanna you are very good at this tiny hints. Aegon could have been whisked away by somebody before the Mountain.... Anyways, it may be true after all that Dany isn't the only Targaryen alive. Imo I just dont like this Aegon V aka Young Griff. It complicates the story further.

 

[Koopa]

I don't follow the Aegon is real theory cause i feel some other things don't add up if he is real. Ilyrio is way too fond of the boy for instance for him to be a child a Rhaegar and Elia. Ashara Dayne child was born stillborn, i think this to be true. With her possible being Lemore. She attempted suicide, failed and found the faith or something like that. I'm off a mind that Aegon is conected to either Varys and Ilyrio by blood ties. And that either Varys or Ilyrio or both are connected to the female line of house Blackfyre.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Koopa I wanted to comment here on a post you made in your dance with dragons re-read thread. You put forth the theory that Serra, Ilyrio's wife (whose hands he kept) is varys' sister, and that Varys and Serra are blackfyres, and that FAegon is Ilyrio and Serra's daughters, making him Varys' nephew and also a blackfyre (or at least half of one)

I really like the way that this fits everything together. It explains more about Varys and Ilyrios closeness, why both are so invested in Aegon, and why the golden company is following FAegon. (Homeless Harry Strickland seems like a stupid oaf, but you don't get to be leader of the Golden Company by being an idiot, so it is possible that he knows more about Varys and Ilyrio's plans than he lets on).

Which plan? ... The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be his sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well. I have had enough of Illyrio’s plans. Robert Baratheon won the Iron Throne without the benefit of dragons. We can do the same.[

this seems like evidence that Ilyrio has shown an ability to adapt to changing circumstances, but he has had FAegon hidden away for 15 years. It is possible that FAgon taking command of the golden company was his only real plan all along, and that the others were distractions that, if they ended up working out, great, but if not, it doesn't matter because Aegon will be there all the same. If anything I bet Ilyrio was hoping that both Dany and Viserys wouldn't get out of the Dothraki sea alive. If Faegon and the Golden Company was Ilyrios main plot, it is possible that Harry Strickland is in on it as well.

Having said that, the fact that everything fits together so nicely probably means that none of it is true.

 

[Koopa]

I do think fAegon was ever his main plan, and Dany his backup. And only because she is a girl and therefore a possible bride for fAegon. I don't think Ilyrio ever intended for Viserys to live.

 

[Ursa major]

It is possible that FAgon taking command of the golden company was his only real plan all along

I agree.

I wrote about this just over four years ago (in 2011) in response to a comment by JOVANENAD:

The threat that Drogo was seen** to pose is the key here. Although the Dothraki travelled as far west as Pentos, Drogo's power base was far away and generally impenetrable to spies, particularly those not controlled by Varys. But the court did know of Varys's spy and so would believe what Varys would say. And he would be saying what he wanted them to hear at just the right time to have the greatest effect, i.e. when Aegon was about to return and needed the biggest diversion possible. And such a diversion would be necessary. The bringing together of a force capable (with help from the locals***) of restoring the Targs to the Iron Throne would not go unnoticed, although no doubt Varys would have provided plausible explanations that had nothing to do with such a restoration.


** - I don't think the Dothraki were ever going to travel to Westeros. If we can take Varys's statement to Kevan at face value (difficult, isn't it?), I can't see him wanting Dothraki screamers laying waste to the Seven Kingdoms. I'm sure Drogo would have met his end at some point, with the same result as his actual death gave: the Dothrakis staying in Essos.

*** - Dorne****, plus the previous Targ kings allies, Highgarden.

**** - That Viserys was killed by the Dothraki was beneficial to the cause (I'm assuming Viserys was encouraged to join the trek east, whatever Illyrio says): Aegon had nothing to do with it. Dorne and Highgarden could have vied to provide Aegon's bride. (Dany would be the obvious choice for Queen, but she could have been tarred with the name of kinslayer, at least as long as help was needed fom Dorne and Highgarden. After that, all bets would be off.)

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I agree.

I wrote about this just over four years ago (in 2011) in response to a comment by JOVANENAD:

I've never seen a clearer picture saying that we NEED THE NEXT BOOK. we've been chewing on this material for over 4 years (not to mention the discussions that go back all the way to book 1)

 

[Koopa]

Don't worry, i predicted 4-5 years ago that the WoW book was gonna be released in sping 2016. We're almost there, and you'll soon find out i was right on the money. I know my prediction to be true since GRRM also came out and told me i had succesfully predicted the ending. Problem is, i'm not sure which prediction he's referring to. (well he said some fans did but let's be honest here, he meant me )

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Don't worry, i predicted 4-5 years ago that the WoW book was gonna be released in sping 2016. We're almost there, and you'll soon find out i was right on the money. I know my prediction to be true since GRRM also came out and told me i had succesfully predicted the ending. Problem is, i'm not sure which prediction he's referring to. (well he said some fans did but let's be honest here, he meant me )

If you bet on all the horses, how can you lose?

 

[Koopa]

i only made 1 date release prediction. But i'm guessing you're referring to having predicted the ending. In that case you're most likely correct. Though in truth i probably haven't made much grand story line predictions. I only ever made a handful predictions of such largesse. But i can't even remember those few...

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

yes I was referring to the ending predictions. although I am thinking your prediction for the release of the next book might be pretty spot on also.