Gender bias in terminology

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Personally, I wish there were a dedicated neutral singular pronoun, because sometimes it's almost impossible to avoid confusion about whether the speaker/writer means singular or plural. I had a conversation with someone recently about their non-binary child, who was going to meet that child's partner. In some cases it was anyone's guess who was being referred to.

The most logical answer would probably be "it", but unfortunately Stephen King got there first... and it probably didn't sound great anyhow. I wonder if the French equivalent has the same "just an object" connotations?

I still find it very odd when (usually older) men refer to women as "females". I don't know if I am alone in this, but it sounds like a nature documentary.
 
The most logical answer would probably be "it", but unfortunately Stephen King got there first... and it probably didn't sound great anyhow. I wonder if the French equivalent has the same "just an object" connotations?
I use "it" for animals of unknown gender, whereas a friend who farms livestock uses "they". Which strikes me as a bit odd, given that she's raising them for slaughter and you'd think she'd benefit from seeing them as objects rather than people.

I sometimes also use "it" for babies of unknown gender, but I usually manage to stop myself in front of their parents.

I think the most logical thing would have been to support an early wide adoption of one of the "zhe" type alternatives. It would have taken some getting used to, but once that was out of the way, we'd be free of the singular/plural confusion of "they" forever. But that ship has sailed.
 
I still find it very odd when (usually older) men refer to women as "females". I don't know if I am alone in this, but it sounds like a nature documentary.
I haven't heard 'females' used for quite a few years (I'm old enough to remember when it was so common it didn't jump out). I still notice a few 'ladies' thrown around at work - the word, not the people - even though 'gentlemen' appears to have died the death.

Discussions like this make me wonder how many other words and terms have slipped away without me noticing.
 
Yes, when I was young it was always 'actress' and now it is generically 'actor'. What do I think about that? Couldn't care less!

Generally people who think this is a big deal have an ulterior motive. Like pretending that some fake culture war over 'woke-ism' is more important than addressing the economy or climate change. Getting passionate about these terms is playing into their hands.
 
Yes, when I was young it was always 'actress' and now it is generically 'actor'. What do I think about that? Couldn't care less!

Generally people who think this is a big deal have an ulterior motive. Like pretending that some fake culture war over 'woke-ism' is more important than addressing the economy or climate change. Getting passionate about these terms is playing into their hands.
Turning the term "actor" into a gender neutral term took a lot of sustained effort by large numbers of people including the actors themselves, the actors they worked with, the other people they work with (directors, producers, and anyone else interviewed) and the support of the media interviewing them and publishing about them.

And yet, the Oscars still has "best actress" and "best supporting actress" categories.

Professional titles have been in transition for decades. Gender neutral terms have been developed and adopted. "Flight Attendant", restaurant "server", etc. One rarely sees the term Aviatrix anymore.

The question of "Doctor or Doctress?" was addressed by Samuel Gregory, Secretary of the New England Female Medical College in the linked academic paper from 1868. As SG notes in the introduction, "The press is a potent agency in moulding forms of speech..." He favored doctress. As we know it didn't stick.

I read a funny article a long time ago mocking one specific change in professional terminology. What title to give to women selected to take the job known as Corporate Chairman of the Board of Directors? Chairwoman? Chairperson? The solution at the time was to call everyone with the position the "Board Chair." The article complained, "but a chair is piece of furniture!"

The choice of Hero/Heroin is easily addressed by authors. Use any term you want.
 
I use 'you guys' gender universally. I picked it up from American sit coms decades ago.
Though sometimes it is perchance all male male like "the guys in maintenance reckon...".
I went to school from a couple people from Texas that were actively trying to learn how to use the term "you guys" in place of "Y'all" a term they used so fluently it didn't seem contrived at all.
 
In the library teen room I work at we use 'friends', but it makes me feel so old. But there really aren't any non-gendered terms that carry the same energy as 'guys'.

I love that!!! (Have you seen Mila Jam's 'It's Raining Them' video?)

The term "friends" (for just other people) sounds like a creepy religious association to me, as in "The Society of Friends." When seen in films it seems to always be used as a form of passive aggression.
 
I recently joined a houseplant group on Facebook. Mostly Americans, so I don't know if this is an American thing (someone confirm?), but they all refer to their houseplants as 'she'. I find it deeply irritating.
 
I recently joined a houseplant group on Facebook. Mostly Americans, so I don't know if this is an American thing (someone confirm?), but they all refer to their houseplants as 'she'. I find it deeply irritating.
Do individual plants have separate genders or are all plants hermaphrodites?

 
I don't really have a hat in this argument at all, but I just wanted to make a point that the word "actress" has some unsavoury historical connotations that make it inappropriate
So does "fish monger". But are those connotations commonly held by modern people?
 
Fungi have thousands of different sexes, it's fascinating!

Re your plant group, Mouse, I wonder if there are many Latinx members, as plant in Spanish (and Portuguese) is female (la planta/ a planta)?
Possibly!

Fungi are brilliant, aren't they!
 
Even as a kid I never understood the need to gender-ise hero to heroine etc as it’s (hero) never struck me as innately masculine.
Writers genderize their characters by choosing a gender for them. Presumably, it mattered to the writer that whatever character is X gender. "Heroine" is a word that allows the writer to advertise their choice in a brief manner.

We absolutely are not in a time where gender doesn't matter. The opposite - people want representation. Do it is a little weird that we simultaneously expect to know exactly what kind person is being written about but discouraging the use of gendered words to clarify.


I'm not complaining that one or the other is better, just that trying to deny and celebrate gender at the same time is schizophrenic. (With all respect to actual schizophrenics.)
 
The tension between representation of gender diversity and shunning of gendered language is uniquely present in (un-illustrated) written works, because it is only through words that we can show characters' gender or other characteristics. In other media, representation does not depend on gendered language.

Case in point, I happened to note one day recently that the cover of sports section of my local paper featured a lead story and photo of baseketball player Elena Delle Donne and a smaller picture of NASCAR veteran Danica Patrick as teaser for the second page article, and those were the stories of the day. They weren't referred to as "lady" athletes as might have been done decades ago, and it wasn't some special "women's day" edition, it's just that women are more represented in sports and so we see them on the cover. If you were writing about fictional characters with made-up exotic names, though, and you wanted clue readers in that you are writing about women characters, you'd have to use your words somehow to get that across.

Ann Leckie's "Ancillary" books are an interesting read in this regard, because the first person MC is genderless and also has a hard time distinguishing the gender of others, so as a reader you may have a gendered mental picture of the character, just like you may mentally assign certain racial characteristics to characters in the absence of any such assignment within the words of the story.
 
A woman in the Church of England who is a member of the clergy is, I believe, a priest, not priestess, but in self-described heathen circles (Asatru etc.), is priestess used?
 
A woman in the Church of England who is a member of the clergy is, I believe, a priest, not priestess, but in self-described heathen circles (Asatru etc.), is priestess used?
No men allowed in heathen circles.
 
Hi. Just a quickie query.

I often hear the people tripping up on the term hero/heroine for their blurbs and marketing.

Even as a kid I never understood the need to gender-ise hero to heroine etc as it’s (hero) never struck me as innately masculine.

Nowadays I’m hearing many people of all genders referring to heroes (and ‘actors’ for that matter) as opposed to heroes and heroines.

Are these things changing?
These gender formats appear to be just hangover French loan words, where nouns originally had "gender" in terms of being masculine or feminine, even though the English language dropped that aspect of language 800+ years ago. So there's absolutely no reason to continue to use the gendered French format, other than it's an historical habit enforced by the minority rich on the rising middle classes, and therefore has absolutely no justification for continued use. :)
 
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