Gender bias in terminology

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In Gail Carriger's The Heroine's Journey she separates completely the term Hero's Journey (and Heroine's Journey) from gender and looks instead at what the storytelling is doing, whoever the main character may be. For instance, she talks about how Wonder Woman is an archetypal hero, while the Harry Potter stories are a heroine's journey. It's an interesting take on the subject! (And nicely inclusive of us non-binary folks.)
 
JunkMonkey said:
The French* get themselves into all sorts of knots about this- you end up with people saying things like this all the time, "le lecteur et la lectrice" where an anglophone would say "the reader". Or "Les auditeurs et audetrices" - "the listeners
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I watched a documentary about the French Foreign Legion a few years ago, they give basic French lessons to the newbies.
The instructor was getting really irked at one person who couldn't get the gender of a tree branch.
"La branche"
Les branche"

I'm thinking would it really matter in a combat situation?
 
Danny McG said:
I watched a documentary about the French Foreign Legion a few years ago, they give basic French lessons to the newbies.
The instructor was getting really irked at one person who couldn't get the gender of a tree branch.
"La branche"
Les branche"

I'm thinking would it really matter in a combat situation?
Click to expand...

I don't know about 'branche' but there are some words where it would make a lot of difference. 'Vase' for example. 'Le vase' is... um... a vase. A pot for putting flowers in. 'La Vase' is silt / mud /sludge.
 
many decades ago my French teacher would get upset if we got the gender of knives & forks wrong - I didn't know that knives & forks had genitalia !

Don't get me started on LGBTQ *!# etc - where do non-gay drag-queens (professional actors) fit in ?
 
It made perfect sense to me.
 
Cthulhu.Science said:
Meaning "he" the stream. Pardon my poor writing. There is no excuse for that on this forum. Where do I think I'm writing? Twitter?
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What does that have to do with my statement that you quoted about straight drag queens?
 
Swank said:
What does that have to do with my statement that you quoted about straight drag queens?
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Clearly I've been living in a fever dream and clicked your message instead of the one above it about forks and knives.

Then again, with a little imagination, it all makes sense! It's all part of "The Plan." - just don't tell Casaubon. Or maybe that is just more of the fever dream; it is really hard to tell.
 
AltThinking said:
many decades ago my French teacher would get upset if we got the gender of knives & forks wrong - I didn't know that knives & forks had genitalia !

Don't get me started on LGBTQ *!# etc - where do non-gay drag-queens (professional actors) fit in ?
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As with my earlier comment in this thread, without wishing to get into any forbidden current affairs subjects, or to cause any argument, gender has nothing to do with genitalia, and this is a thread that started about gendered language. Gender in language is different. English is relatively ungendered for inanimate objects, but many other languages are not. I speak three, to varying degrees, which are and I struggle often remembering specifics for some items. Most people, though, are relatively understanding in correcting my poor grammar.

As for the crack, please remember that there are quite a few LGBTQIA+ members on the Chrons. It's an easy set of letters, and you can simply use the five you used with a plus afterwards, if you wish to be inclusive.

Re professional actors who use drag, that's an ancient tradition, going back to Greek and Roman times, and before. They fit in just fine. But, they're not drag queens, as that refers to a different, and specific, art form.
Swank said:
You just summarized those folks as not gay. So they don't fit in.
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There are drag artists who are not gay, perhaps not even bisexual, who would classify themselves as straight. They fit in absolutely fine -- after all, it's always nice to have a token cis-het friend in the group ;) . Again, wishing to stay away from current affairs, but I would note (I justify this in terms of artistry) that the traditional drag artist is very different from the popularised concept show on television on such programmes as Drag Race. It's a bit of a problem, in that 'reality' TV is often not real, and doesn't reflect truth, except to a few marketing execs.

However, it does again negotiate some juggling with the language (see, mods, I'm trying to pull this back on track :p ) at times. I have a good friend who is a drag king. In her regular life, she is definitely a she, but in her drag persona, she is acting, and always referred to as the character's name or as 'he'. It actually provides a certain amount of literary possibility, in terms of an artist on stage being perceived differently from off-stage, and how different aspects of personality could be used to invoke ideas and character.

Anyway, I'm sure this is just (again, a good example of) language being imperfect in communication. I thought I'd add my tuppence ha'penny to clear up possible misconceptions, and perhaps give opportunity for improved representation in the future. Who knows, a future story could include a drag show on a starship, or an epic fantasy village with travelling artists. :)
 
Abernovo said:
There are drag artists who are not gay, perhaps not even bisexual, who would classify themselves as straight. They fit in absolutely fine -- after all, it's always nice to have a token cis-het friend in the group
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That doesn't mean they fit into the grouping known as LGBTQ+, as in the post I quoted.
 
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