Jaime!

[Dolorous Edd]

I will agree with you on one point Boaz: jaime does rock He's easily one of my fave characters, and also one of the characters i like most - Despite pushing Bran off that tower.*








* Disclaimer: A crime for which Bran bears no responsibility.

 

[ChasenFate]

::Chuckling at disclaimer::

 

[The Blackfish]

Jamie and Dany?

Wouldn't that be funny?! Jamie could be the king that Cersei never was

 

[Culhwch]

Now, I'm gonna preface this statement by saying that I mean no offence to anyone here. Really. I value and respect you all. But....

Something that really ticks me off is people spelling 'Jaime' as 'Jamie'. Yes, a small point, I know. But these characters have become but a whisper away from real for me, and it strikes at my heart every time I see it. Jaime is aristocratic, bold, haughty, and assured. Jamie is the forgettable guy in a boyband. I'm not sure if it's an intentional thing, or just a (constant) typo. It's just something that gets to me.

There, I've said it.

I think the new Jaime would make an able king, but he has his vows to think of. I doubt he would now forsake his duties to the Kingsguard to wed Dany and take the throne. The Kingslayer becomes the Oathbreaking Usurper? Don't think so....

 

[asdar]

I totally agree Culhwch, on the Jamie/Jaime thing. I imagine it's harder for people to get it right that know a Jamie and have the typing hand memory going though. I type without thinking a lot and get some weird combos. I try to proof but, well, time gets the best of us sometimes.

Ugh, my thread wishing Jaime a horrible death turned him into a King. What's the world coming too.

 

[Cssndra]

Culhwch...I think I'm cursed. Whenever I see Jaime (living in the south) I want to pronounce it the spanish way. Whenver I see Jamie, I think of a guy I used to play soccer with and want to type it that way.

LOL, my IRL name is Jennifer. Have you ever tried to pronounce that with a spanish inflection? HENNifer.

 

[Cssndra]

Darn double posting

 

[Boaz]

* Disclaimer: A crime for which Bran bears no responsibility.

Hilarious!

After living for so long in SoCal, my first impression was that Jaime (Hi May)was a blonde Spaniard... kinda like Zorro.

Jaime: If I give my lands to the people, where are we going to live?
Cersei: Oldtown!
Jaime: Oldtown?
Cersei: Yes! It is the only civilized city. They have the best art, the best music...
Jaime: You have to been kidding me... I was in Oldtown for a week, and I never heard a decent Mariachi playing.

Thoros: I'm Thoros of Myr. I'm with the People's Independence Committee.
Jaime: Ser Jaime Lannister. I'm with the greedy bloodsuckers.

Beric: You don't really believe the people are happy!
Jaime: All I know is the soldiers are quite happy shooting the people who say the people are not happy.

[Jaime is about to be maimed]
Brienne: You're the bravest man I've ever met.
Jaime: I'm very impressed with myself, too.

Brienne: [as Jaime is about to be maimed] I have only one regret... that you will not live to fight in the glorious revolution that you have brought about...
Jaime: [to himself] Why doesn't she say something like, I will love you forever? When's she going to say that?
Brienne: I will love you forever!

Butterbumps: Two bits, four bits, six bits a peso, all for the Kingslayer stand up and say so!

 

[Cssndra]

Boaz, that is so...wrong (but quite funny)

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Jaime: If I give my lands to the people, where are we going to live?
Cersei: Oldtown!
Jaime: Oldtown?

Haha. Whenever I hear Oldtown, I think of the touristy section of San Diego where you can eat regular Mexican food for thrice the price, and purchase all kinds of "authentic replicas" of gold-digging tools and crap like that.

 

[jaunty jackanapes]

He was actively committing incest, betrayed his brother completely, Killed the king he was sworn to defend, and sat in his throne after and pushed a small boy out a window trying to kill him.

Out of those, the only one i can hold against him is pushing bran out the window. Killing aerys was his finest act (as jaime has himself thought before). It's easy to adopt the kingsguard's sense of "honor" when reading grrms books because they are so engrossing. But let's not lose site of more modern views. Aerys could be likened to someone like sadam hussein. Would it be more honorable to be sadaam's sworn man, watching idly as he carried out rapes/murders, or would be be better to be his assassin? I think the analogy is a fair one. Jaime is called kingslayer and reviled as an oathbreaker by the realm, but keep in mind that in the middle ages people tried to cast the world in black and white, and the same is true in Grrm's world of "knights' honor." Motives, circumstance, etc. are ignored because he violated his vows. It is easy for people to condemn when the rules are black and white.
Jaime is obviously tormented about betraying tyrion. In an extremely patriarchal society such as theirs it would be a hard thing to ignore commands from your father, and his father happened to be Tywin.

I love GRRM's books partially because of the contrast it provides for modern society. It is easy to see the shortcomings of feudal society and to see how the characters can falsely interpret morality from their points of view.

In a way I think tyrion's disfigurement gives him a license for noncomformity. It is easier for him to make his own morals and think outside of his time and place because he is not expected to be normal. People think he is evil because of his shape, and he has learned not to care what others think. That is why I think Tyrion is the most interesting character. He lives in the feudal system of the middle ages but is more developed morally. He knows that common men aren't different than he is himself, and knows that a house name doesn't mean much.

 

[asdar]

Pushing Bran out the window is the worst in my opinion but I think they're all bad.

I agree that killing the mad king is a good thing, but it still makes him an oath breaker. It was treason, and while I could forgive him that alone I don't think it's a good thing, it's just not as damning as trying to kill Bran. After he killed him and sat in his throne, well, maybe Ned's PoV wasn't accurate but it seemed a lot like he was trying to make a play for it but decided he didn't have the backing yet.

I had a problem with him and Barristan both wearing the white after their king died. They failed in their sworn duty and had no right to wear it for the next king. I'd have to admit though that was as much the new kings problem as Jaime's though.

He should be tormented by betraying his brother, that's one of his more deliberately evil actions in my opinion. I agree with you that Tyrion is an interesting character. I can't wait for ADWD to see his next PoV.

Well, anyway, I like reading his PoV. I'm just not ready to see him marry Brienne and settle down raising some giant babies in the emerald isles. I think he's done too much bad for redemption, but it's just my opinion.

 

[Humanraindelay]

Two things about Jaime I found interesting in aFfC. They do not really follow the theme of this thread but I didn't want to start another Jaime thread.

******spoiler*************


Who is Jaimes real father. We know Tywin raised him but a quote from Jaimes Aunt Geena suggest Tywin is not Jaimes father.

"Jaime," she said tugging on his ear,"sweetling, I have known you Since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevin in you, else you would not where that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywins son. Not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering fools. Even the sort that come along once in a thousand years."

Now that I reread it, maybe she just means Tyrion is more like Tywin than Jaime, but maybe she is saying Jaime really isn't Tywins son. What do you think?



Second, Tom O' Sevens seems to be in a position to inform UnCat where and when Jaime is leaving. Do you think Jaime may have a rather short role in the upcoming books?

 

[Brian G Turner]

Now that I reread it, maybe she just means Tyrion is more like Tywin than Jaime, but maybe she is saying Jaime really isn't Tywins son. What do you think?

I agree, it was my first thought - and Jaime seems to consider it. But...there are other meanings, such as Tyrion being more like Tywin.

 

[Culhwch]

Never once considered that she meant anything other than that Tyrion was more his father's son than Jaime. I think the fact that Jaime and Cersei are such out and out Lannisters in appearance - and we saw through Ned that the Lannisters are often the weaker gene pool when it comes to intermarriage and offspring looks, not to mention the weak-chinned Frey-Lannisters - lends credence to the idea that they are indeed Tywin and Joanna's true born children.

 

[direghost]

I think the possibility has to be considered that Jaime and Cersei are not Tywin's, as parentage is a common them in ASOFAI, but I hope it was meant as Culhwch said, just metaphorical. Otherwise it gets a little too soap-operish.

But on the other hand, Jaime's dream lends credence to the idea that Tywin is not his father.

"Dream Lady - "We all dream of things we cannot have. Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them."

J: "I am a knight," he told her, "and Cersei is the queen.

A tear rolled down her cheek."

Combined with the earlier conversation, it's either Martin really really trying to convince us Jaime has changed or something else is going on. They do look so much like Lannisters, so they couldn't be Targs but Gerion, Tyg, or Kevan could be the father, possibly.

 

[Culhwch]

I think the key to that quote is the irony that yes, they became a knight and queen respectively, and still were the punchline of a kingdom's jokes....

 

[the_faery_queen]

i forgave jamie. *shrug* the king was a bad guy (robert, yes he was. and so was the one before!) ok robert wasn't as actively bad as the mad king before, but he wasn't that nice to cersi, and jamie loves cersi. so what he did was out of love. and i also do believe in the, if you want to be king you have to hang onto the throen and prove your worthy of it. robert couldn't do that. he didn't care less about cersi, he cheated on her, he had no idea whatr was going on in his own house, he didn't pay enough attention. he snoozed and he lost!

the incest thing, well, that doesn't bother me. tho i do find it interesting that there are a lot of reasons for why cersi took jamie to bed, and i can't think of any reasons why he did it (for her i can see revenge towards her father, love, a way for her to get some control over her life, through him, a way to be close to him, as he is a part of her, but put forward as the better half being male, etc) so yeah, i find that odd.

pushing bran out was self preservation. he would have been in deep poop otherwise, treason, for sleeping with the king's wife, as would she. bran's life or his own, well not much of a choice. i would hav eprobably done the same to be honest! sounds awful, but there you are

there's also the factor that's he just' cool which sounds awful, but it seems to be the way people go. if someone is charasmatic, little finger, jamie, tyrion, we are more prepared to forgive them than cersi, say, or caetyln. bothers me a bit that it is the women who are unsympathetic characters, who are painted negatively and then disliked for things, even things that are perfectly reasonable. *shrug*

 

[Brian G Turner]

there's also the factor that's he just' cool

Jon Snow makes a point of thinking he looks most like a king when Robert visits Winterfell.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Faery Queen-would you really push a little a boy off a building to save your own skin? I hope not. Pushing Bran is Jaime's most unforgiveable transgression, and also completely unjustifiable (is "unjustifiable" a word?) He can justify killing Aerys, and consensual incest is just a disgusting matter of personal taste.