The Dragon Has Three Heads

[DeannaBelle]

Danny

/\
Jon Tyrion​

Is my best guess. Or any variation of the three, but Danny as TPTWP seems more likely after AFFC. I'm also very partial to Culhwch's (i think, soz if it was someone else) wild fancy that Tyrion is Aery's ******* child on Joanna lannister and that Tywin slept with Aery's wife in retaliation, making danny ******* born as well. There's a symmetry to it that i like, plus the added bonus that they're not all 3 off their trolleys. ​

That's so crazy I like it. But only as amusement.

Remember how according to that Martell guy (I am very good with names, you see) it was rumored that Tyrion had a tail? (I think maybe it was even more of an outrageous rumor - like he had scales or something) Anyway, that's the ONLY thing I can think of to indicate that Tyrion is actually a Targ, given that we know about the Targ's affinity for weird science/magic. But... Tyrion is just a "small person."

Lol, I haven't heard the phrase "off their trolleys" in a long time. Love it. reminds me if Mr. Rogers "trolley" went crazy or something.

 

[Charming Serpent]

*sighs* Aegon is dead. Tyrion is not a Targaryen. The 3 heads of the Dragon are symbolic of the Targaryens, not literal. As long as Dany lives, the Targs are represented and the other 3 heads can be anyone of her choosing or the dragons i would suppose too.

My opinion ... Dany is most assuredly TPTWP/AA reborn. She dreamnt of herself riding dragons and burning an army of ice. She goes on to think how this feels right and that is what she was born to do.

Lightbringer .... The sword itself could still be around or her dragons could be considered the sword of flame.

3 heads .... Dany, Jon and Tyrion. Tyrion has spoken about riding Dragons and his dreams etc... GRRM identifies with Tyrion and so I believe he will let his wish come true. Jon, because, well c'mon, he is practically the main character in this book. Besides, he seems to be half targ and commands the wall so he will be at the forefront of the battle vs the others.

Conjecture .... Ok, ok, ok. I will conceed that Tyrion could be a canidate for a possible Targ, but I find it highly unlikely. I know the theories and there is some plausibility in them, but I just don't think so. The Golden Company, imo, has a big surprise in store for us. They were the last to have the Targaryen Valyrian sword called Blackflame. Maybe they have something else hidden as well?? The Daynes know or have something that is key in this story, I just know it.

 

[Tysha]

First, Aegon is alive
Second, why would anyone claim that he is Aegon when everybody knows that Aegon is dead? So why not fake Rhaenys's or any fake dead Targeryen?

The only one one who can think about Aegon being alive is the reader(!) and Dany who saw the prophecy: Rhaegar looking at her, showing her baby Aegon and telling her - you have to find ANOTHER one.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Yeah, Rhaegar looked up, but Dany wasn't sure if he was looking at her or not. She saw Rhaegar with his infant and his wife. Rhaegar thought his son was TPTWP and Aemon thought it Rhaegar before that, but both were proven wrong when baby Aegon was killed as was Rhaegar. Aemon says as much in FFC. He goes on to explain how Septon Barth had it right a thousand years ago. How they had been looking for a prince and not a princess. He then says the error was in the translation.

Aegon still dead.

*points to avatar* Goddamn, that is a pretty snake.

 

[Stellar]

I don't think Aegon is alive for the simple fact that any ruse to fake his death (and keep him hidden for 16 years on the off chance a girl a continent away managed to hatch some dragons) would have to have been so ridiculously convoluted that only Littlefinger, Varys or maybe Doran are smart enough to pull it off convincingly. Littlefinger wasn't in King's Landing at the time, and Varys and Doran have put all their energy into Dany, which they wouldn't have done if they had Aegon in the wings. Logical conclusion: He really is dead. But there are just enough hints in place for an attempt to convince Dany and the reader that he isn't, i.e. Red Herring.

 

[Tysha]

Yeah, Rhaegar looked up, but Dany wasn't sure if he was looking at her or not. She saw Rhaegar with his infant and his wife. Rhaegar thought his son was TPTWP and Aemon thought it Rhaegar before that, but both were proven wrong when baby Aegon was killed as was Rhaegar. Aemon says as much in FFC. He goes on to explain how Septon Barth had it right a thousand years ago. How they had been looking for a prince and not a princess. He then says the error was in the translation.

Aegon still dead.

*points to avatar* Goddamn, that is a pretty snake.

It's not just as someone remembering what really happened years ago, it's a PROPHECY in the House Of The Undying!
What kinda prophecy is that if it's just shows you "a day in Rhaegar's life"?

Stellar: Aegon's father and Aegon's mother would like him to be alive, because they are his parents, AND because Rhaegar thought he is PTWP - so it was important to keep him safe. You don't have to be a very smart man to make this "baby changing " (Jon made it with Gili's babe and Robb said that it's not safe to keep all your gold in one purse...so..)

“There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.”
What about "one more" and "three heads"?
And if all those hints are just a Red Herring (for US), how exactly fake Aegons are going to show up?
​

 

[Charming Serpent]

Hmm, I do not think it was a Prophecy. A prophecy would entail something in the future happening i.e. the words the undying spoke to her. Do not forget that the vision right before that was of her father talking to his pyromancer hand and telling him Robert will be king of only ashes. THAT was past. Rhaegar's scene to me was just what it was; a moment shown to us that happened where we find out that someone knows about what is going to happen (Hence his reference to the song of ice and fire) He had his little girl and now had Aegon, whom he thought was TPTWP. He said there must be one more due to the fact that, obviously, the dragon has 3 heads. I think he was speaking of a potential 3rd child. (Maybe he was waiting for Dany to be born)

The only prophecies that were actual prophecies were the 3 betrayals, 3 mounts and 3 fires that must be lit. The rest of the things she saw before hearing those were just visions of the past etc...

 

[Tysha]

When I've said "prophecy" I meant that this is something meaningful, something that is more complicated than just a picture she sees. ( and there was a Red Wedding prophecy..) And I think Rhaegar, who thought that Aegon is the PTWP, had to protect him (It's easy to switch a baby so no one will notice, cos all the babies look very similar..)

 

[Charming Serpent]

Yeah, the protection theory could find some credible evidence, but I just can't shake a few things off about this whole Aegon thingy.

If the Dragon has to have 3 heads and Rhaegar believes his son to be the PTWP then why just switch him, but let his daughter stay in KL? I mean, I'm sure there could be reasons, but that doesn't sound like the Rhaegar I read about.

Oh, and Jaimies' dream where he is under the Rock. He faces his sworn brothers who died and Rhaegar. Rhaegar shone with an angry light and said I left my children in your protection. Granted, it could just be a fever dream, but if it wasn't then Aegon is dead as Ned.

Damn this Aegon stuff gives me fits and headaches!!

 

[Charming Serpent]

Oh, I just saw another forum's comment on something I was reading about the Dayne's and though it is not about them it is about the 3 heads of the dragon.

Just this one lilttle piece that I and maybe others overlooked. Whether it has any meaning I will leave to you.

Tyrion, Dany and Jon's mothers all died in childbirth.

By itself, it might mean nothing, but what a coincidence in any case!

 

[Tysha]

Oh, I have a PhD on "how to make a headache to as many people as possible in The Dragon Has Three Heads thread

 

[Dolorous Nate]

OK, I am getting onto this thread EXTREMELY late, but I have to add, if you carefully look at Tysha's theory (Alleras=Aegon), and do a re-read of the prologue to AFFC, it jumps out in the first few sentences of the book:

"'Dragons.' said Mollander. He snatched a withered apple off the ground and tossed it hand to hand. 'Throw the apple,' urged Alleras the Sphinx. He slipped an arrow from his quiver and nocked it to his bowstring.
'I should like to see a dragon.' Roone was the youngest of them, a chunky boy still two years shy of manhood. 'I should like that very much.'"

That is pure brilliance. There is a dragon in front of them, yet they do not see. And this passage is perfectly placed to avoid scrutiny; the first three sentences of a book that readers have waited for and will devour without an afterthought or second glance.

Any thoughts???

 

[Boaz]

Welcome, Nate!

First, I never mind anyone getting here "late"... you're just in time.

Second, I never mind anyone reviving an old thread... so don't sweat anyone saying anything.

Third, did you read all of Tysha's and Aegon's posts on pages 11-13 of this thread? It was confusing to me two years ago... I don't know if I have the willpower to power through it again. Sure "the sphinx is the riddle"... but how did Aemon know of Alleras? Did Oberyn specifically train his ******* daughters to purposely hide Aegon? If Oberyn and Doran knew that Alleras=Aegon, then why were they plotting to marry Arianne to Viserys?... Arianne could now marry Aegon. Why is Doran sending Quentyn to Dany?

I've got so many "what ifs" regarding ASOIAF that I barely remember what is.

 

[Dolorous Nate]

I read the back and forth discussion and the main points of the Alleras=Aegon argument yesterday, and I am certain a few points have alluded me, but going back and reading the first and last POV's in AFFC with the theory in mind just seems to transform every reference to Alleras.

If it indeed plays out and the theory holds water then it makes for a brilliant and subtle piece of writing. In the prologue the boys banter about dragons while Alleras's only comments are obviously intended to change the course of discussion. He is pointedly ignoring the conversation, only to then state "I will tell you what I know of dragons... The dragon has three heads."

A page earlier:
"The Sphinx was always smiling. As if he knew some secret jape."

The prologue is full of such clues. Leo Tyrell refers to him as a lord's child, obviously suspecting he is of high birth, to which Alleras firmly states, "And I am no lord's son. I have told you. My mother was a trader."

When you read the prologue and then move on to the final POV from Samwell, more hints are furnished.

When Sam initially begins to tell Alleras his story, Alleras's seizes upon the name Aemon. "Did you say Maester Aemon?"
"Aye."
"Aemon Targaryen?"

In fact Alleras seems very interested in the Targaryens, telling the fate of the remaining family during the sack of KL in the prologue, telling Sam specific information concerning Aemon, and aluding to a specific interest in Dragons and things associated with them. More from the prologue:

"'Dragonglass.' Pate said. 'The smallfolk call it Dragonglass.' That seemed somehow important.
'They do,' mused Alleras, the Sphinx, 'and if there are dragons in the world again..'"

In the final POV Alleras demonstrates a vested interest in what to do concerning Dany, when Marywn finishes telling Sam the Citadel's anti-magic/Dragons perogative,

"'...Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can.'
'What will you do?' asked Alleras, the Sphinx."

I must confess I have not done a full research of Sarella or her history, but I will tentatively put forward the theory that all three are one and the same. It would seem to be most prudent to disguise the young Aegon as a girl while growing up among his "sisters" in Dorne, only to switch him to his rightful gender and reverse his name upon providing him a change of environment at a critical age when his disguise as a woman would be harder and harder to maintain. This portion of my theory is most likely easily debunked, but as I said I have not re-read everything concerning Sarella and her identity and supposed whereabouts.

If anyone can blow this out of the water then please come forward and sink my wonderful theory ship.

 

[Dolorous Nate]

,furthermore, an interesting omission by Doran Martell on pg. 862 of AFFC:

"'Do you truly believe I would harm my brother's children?' Her father grimaced. 'Obara, Nym, and Tyene lack for nothing but their freedom, and Ellaria and her daughters are happily ensconsed at the Water Gardens. Dorea stalks about knocking oranges off the trees with her morningstar, and Elia and Obella have become the terror of the pools."

No mention of Sarella, but I must admit this is simply more absence of evidence.

Speaking of Sarella, where is any mention made of her besides Areo Hotah's POV?

Finally, specifically regarding Tysha's theory that Alleras=Aegon but Alleras /= Sarella:

I believe it is quite clear that Alleras=Sarella. Evidence for that is far stronger than evidence for Alleras=Aegon, yet I personally believe them all to be the same person.

Aegon became Sarella became Alleras
Egg=S=Alleras

 

[Boaz]

No mention of Sarella, but I must admit this is simply more absence of evidence.

Now that's thought provoking. Does Sarella appear in any of Arianne's thoughts or speech?

 

[Dolorous Nate]

In the interest of having ALL of the known information about obscure characters, I am finding that I would love for there to be a searchable database where I could type Sarella, and find every page number that references her....

I can only think to scan the Dorne chapters and hope significant sandsnake information wasn't revealed by another set of POVs.

I just finished a series re-read and don't feel up for an immediate re-read. FRUSTRATING to say the least.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Isn't it said that Alleras is a very dark but comely youth? Why would have Aegon have such dark skin and features?

 

[Ursa major]

I defer to those with more encyclopaedic knowledge of the series so far as to who Alleras, Sarella, etc are.

But I would point out that the riddle of the Sphinx involves a three-fold nature:

Which creature in the morning goes on four legs, at mid-day on two, and in the evening upon three, and the more legs it has, the weaker it be?”

to quote the example given in Wiki, which might be used to support the Alleras = Aegon theory.



For myself, it all seems a bit too obvious for either GRRM or Doran (which might mean that it might just be true in GRRM's world of bluff and double bluff).


* Wonders if the three-fold riddle has anything to do with the three heads of the dragon (i.e. that they are all the same person). *

 

[Dolorous Nate]

I could find 3 specific pieces of counter-evidence against Aegon=Alleras in AFFC(during a re-read of the prologue, the Samwell POV, and the Dorne chapters) so in the interest of fully addressing the theory I feel compelled to present them.

1.) Specific mention is made of Alleras's black eyes. Specific mention is made in Areo Hotah's POV that all of Oberyn's children have his eyes, this is their defining trait.

2.) In the prologue much is made of Alleras's slight build...

3.) Doran Martell states that Sarella is out of the picture playing her "game". This is not so much when considering just the presentation of facts, but may state more about Doran's possible ignorance of Sarella's identity, which calls the theory into question. Why would Doran not know? How could Doran not know?

I dont view the male and female Sphinx statues as counter-evidence due to the fact that Aegon initially assuming a female identity is in line with the theory.

If anyone can find other specific counter evidence please present it!

If you step back and take a brief look at all hints/information presented, Sarella is virtually a non-entity.

The "slight build" comments only debunk the theory if Alleras is indeed a woman. I believe that the comments only serve to show how Alleras passed off as Sarella while growing up.

Doran's statement to Areo Hotah was a verbal exchange and the information was not presented from within Doran Martell's mind, therefore rendering the statement ambiguous.

By far the most damning is the description of the eyes, as this is specifically stated as the Viper's signature trait passed on to his children. This evidence is doing its best to jam the thoery, and doing a decent job of it. I refute this evidence only with the fact that Aegon is Elia's child, and Elia, being Oberyn's sister could certainly pass on Martell traits.

The principle reasons for my belief that Egg=Sarella=Alleras are that,

1) Solid information about Sarella is not present, to the point that Doran omits "her" during a statement about his brother's children, in which he names every one except Sarella.

2) And, most compelling by far, WHEREVER Alleras has appeared in the text, Dragons and Targaryens are the central theme around which all meaningful conversation rotates. Couple this with wise old Aemon's outburst about a Sphinx (In itself the statement is dubious, yet another direct Targaryen/Alleras reference) and it certainly appears at this point that Alleras is integrally connected to the fate of the Targaryen bloodline.