I no longer feel obligated to purchase ADWD. Is that wrong?

[Conor]

I think the main reason many fans are feeling impatient and maybe resentful is, through his masterful storytelling he leaves us hanging where we feel like Brienne.He is a master of making us need to know "what happened to??" The imp,Brienne, Bran and a host of others.

One example of another author who has years between books is Thomas Harris. Red Dragon, Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal.But he will wrap up each tale with out a cliffhanger that leaves one feeling quite antsy.

I had the luxory of reading Game-Feast almost one right after the other and sure hope Dance-Dragons comes out with the HBO series.

 

[No One]

Let's just be hypothetical for a moment. Would the current "patient" fans be as understanding if this drags out another 5 years? With all of the updates he's giving such as: "5 more chapters, breaking thru the knot, shoveling snow, etc... ". Let's be honest, the frustration will continue to mount in many more of the so called "patient" or "understanding" fan. It's inevitable!

You're right of course, but there's also the issue of how fans react when they reach the end of their patience. Most people will simply lose interest and find something else to occupy their thoughts, whereas some few will take it more personally (and not without grounds for justification, but some of the attacks on GRRM go way beyond that line).

I wonder if Scott Lynch is paying attention to all this...

 

[The Imp]

I think the mistrust that the fans are feeling in which his honesty is in question stems from him saying AFFC would in fact be realeased the following year. (I truly feel this is the bulk of the detractors ammunition stash)

Let's just be hypothetical for a moment. Would the current "patient" fans be as understanding if this drags out another 5 years? With all of the updates he's giving such as: "5 more chapters, breaking thru the knot, shoveling snow, etc... ". Let's be honest, the frustration will continue to mount in many more of the so called "patient" or "understanding" fan. It's inevitable!

Just a FYI, you dont grow more patient the longer it takes for something you're eagerly anticipating.

Again, I'm not defending or supporting either side. It just is what it is.

I'm not even close to being here the longest, yet I have seen many people who used to post regularly disappear. People move on to other stuff. If the other stuff is good enough they may never return to what they left. It's a testament to how good of a writer GRRM is that people are still anticipating ADWD and posting on forums such as this one after all this time.

 

[Mesanna]

I'm late to the series and if the next book is out by summer, I'll have waited less than 18 months, so I haven't experienced first hand the long wait that others have. However, when people start complaining that "he's watching sports when he should be writing because if he doesn't get a move on he will die before the series is finished", I just think Jeezuz, get some perspective peeps! As Mr Gaiman says, you may feel there's a contract between you and the author, but he doesn't actually owe you anything. If he announces next week that he's not writing any more, yes I'll be devastated, but some rabid "fans" sound like they'd shoot him over it. It's his job and people quit jobs to do new things all the time, so maybe we should be grateful that he's actually sticking with it, and working through what sounds like a rough period in his writing career.

Having said all that, I don't think GRRM helped the situation by continually promising that the book would be out soon. He probably would have been better to admit about three years ago that he'd run into problems and would need to rewrite from scratch. That would have gotten everyone off his back for a couple of years at least.

 

[wolfpost]

Hi, first things first, I have read the first three books and loved them. So to the poster that accused me of not reading them, are you not doing the same thing your accusing me of doing? Thought they were great. I turned Conor on to them. Don't ask me to say much about them because I read the third book 6 years ago. I refuse to read the forth book because from everything I hear it's disapointing and only half a book. I will read it if this book ever comes out.

More than anything I am blowing off steam. I could care less if you guys want to stick with him or not. And you are right I should just stop reading him and look else where for other authors that release their books in a timely manner. And I have. What many of you aren't getting is that if I didn't care about the books, I would not have bothered to post here.

I would NEVER have read the first book if I knew he was going to pull this. I took a chance with him because he was timely with the first three books. And got burnt again, by an author who feels he's more important than the people that buy his books. No more.

I truly believe the man is tired of writing the books and that's why we get these long delays in their releases. He appears to be finally doing what I wished he had done 5 years ago. Shut up on his site about all the other things he's working on. That's the part that galls me the most.The flaunting of not working on the books.

Oh, he has said several times or made us to believe several times that the books were near completion before. All of you know he has mentioned "only 5 chapters to go or only three to go." Or how about 5 years ago when he split this book and said the second one was almost done. He, to me is doing it again. Why? because he wants us to remain interested in the books so we will buy them. If he keeps saying they are almost done, some of us will actually believe him. Last I heard in October, he only had three chapters to finish. Then i read that the publisher said they were hoping for the manuscript before the end of the year. Now he says that he was going to make a announcement this month at a convention but the week in the hospital is stopping that. Come on a week? Your telling me a week is going to delay the release for months or years in his case? LOL. Your kidding me right? I've been hearing this stuff for 5 years.

Hey, for those of you that have no problem waiting him out cool. But I and others would like Mr. Martin to know of our displeasure in his VERY unprofessional attitude and behavior.

So I respect your views on Mr. Martin, maybe some of you should respect mine.

 

[The Imp]

Hi, first things first, I have read the first three books and loved them. So to the poster that accused me of not reading them, are you not doing the same thing your accusing me of doing? Thought they were great. I turned Conor on to them. Don't ask me to say much about them because I read the third book 6 years ago. I refuse to read the forth book because from everything I hear it's disapointing and only half a book. I will read it if this book ever comes out.

More than anything I am blowing off steam. I could care less if you guys want to stick with him or not. And you are right I should just stop reading him and look else where for other authors that release their books in a timely manner. And I have. What many of you aren't getting is that if I didn't care about the books, I would not have bothered to post here.

I would NEVER have read the first book if I knew he was going to pull this. I took a chance with him because he was timely with the first three books. And got burnt again, by an author who feels he's more important than the people that buy his books. No more.

I truly believe the man is tired of writing the books and that's why we get these long delays in their releases. He appears to be finally doing what I wished he had done 5 years ago. Shut up on his site about all the other things he's working on. That's the part that galls me the most.The flaunting of not working on the books.

Oh, he has said several times or made us to believe several times that the books were near completion before. All of you know he has mentioned "only 5 chapters to go or only three to go." Or how about 5 years ago when he split this book and said the second one was almost done. He, to me is doing it again. Why? because he wants us to remain interested in the books so we will buy them. If he keeps saying they are almost done, some of us will actually believe him. Last I heard in October, he only had three chapters to finish. Then i read that the publisher said they were hoping for the manuscript before the end of the year. Now he says that he was going to make a announcement this month at a convention but the week in the hospital is stopping that. Come on a week? Your telling me a week is going to delay the release for months or years in his case? LOL. Your kidding me right? I've been hearing this stuff for 5 years.

Hey, for those of you that have no problem waiting him out cool. But I and others would like Mr. Martin to know of our displeasure in his VERY unprofessional attitude and behavior.

So I respect your views on Mr. Martin, maybe some of you should respect mine.

I'll start by apologizing for my tone in my earlier post to you. I was coming from a long and horrible discussion about the Arizona shootings and I was in a foul mood. Also, just so you know exactly where i'm coming from, I'm one of those that beleives that when an author is saying he/she is starting a series there is a contract formed between said author and reader. It goes something like this- "Buy and read my first book, which will be part of an incomplate story and i in turn promise to finish the rest of the books and give you a complete story".

I've also complained in the past that given that GRRM can't write on the road, his planning multiple trips when he has a massive monkey of a book on his back is at best imprudent. I'd like to believe that he thought he was going to be done and made committments a year or two ago that have come back to hinder his writing.

I've come to peace with all of that and i fully support him. He owes me some books, but I believe he's working hard to deliver them. It also helps when for me this is the best fiction I have ever read, in any genre.

I urge you to read the 4th book, AFFC. While it's not
the best of the series, and is very tough to begin, it has a lot of good stuff in it, and certain plotlines take some interesting turns. GRRM's mediocre effort is better than 90% of that of most authors, and the book isn't mediocre.

Oh, by the way, It was very clear from your OP that you care a lot about these books. As you said, if you didn't you wouldn't bother.


Stick around, you'll find some great discussioins here, and some very crazy theories

 

[viZion]

I know I've said this before, but count me among those who now refuse to start a series that isn't finished. It's just not worth the heartache. And wolfpost and I can't be the only ones that have made this decision. I don't blame this entirely on GRRM, either. Robert Jordan burned me, too. And in Jordan's case, you'd wait years and then get "The Crossroads of Twilight" which includes THREE chapters about one character taking a bath. Anyway, I think wolfpost made a valid point about it because it probably does affect new authors. But I don't have numbers so maybe the effect is negligible.

And Neil Gaiman's post makes him look like a tool. It was awful when it came out and it's awful to use it as a counterargument when someone criticizes GRRM. Also, saying "just go read something else!" is a weak argument as well and one I'm tired of seeing. We're not stupid. Of course, we're reading other things in the meantime. That doesn't change our feelings on this matter.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

The fourth book isn't disappointing, and let me just say, anyone who says it is is a ******* moron, and has at best, very questionable taste.

 

[wolfpost]

Hey dudes and dudettes,

The Imp, I wasn't bothered by what you said at all and my annoyance was more directed at Ursa Major who tried to say I didn't read the first three books. I think that's what he was saying any way. Then went on to accuse me of some ulterior motive that I have. What this motive might be escapes me.

It seems he was annoyed with me for accusing Martin of being less than truthful without any evidence which is true, then he went on to accuse me without any evidence. LOL. So apparently he can do it but I can't.

Thank you for the apology though and I sure can't blame you for being upset by the nuttiness in Arizona.

Ursa Major also said,

"In fact, if GRRM wanted us to think the book was almost here, he wouldn't be telling us how it's coming along slowly, or that he's had major problems with the plot;"

Indeed he has said that but he and or his publisher have also said on many occasions that the book is almost done. Thus making people want to hang on just a little bit longer for it's release. Hell, he said it was almost done on the back cover of book 4. And if I remember correctly, didn't Martin say he was actually writing book 5 along with book 4? If so then it's actually been closer to ten years for this book. Isn't that a bit much?

As you know I am in your camp too about the author/buyer contract. What scares me though is the habit of current day authors to "stretch" their series out by not advancing the plot. After reading many reviews on Amazon, that seems to be just what Martin is doing now. Going down the same road as Goodkind and Jordan. But they at least wrote a new book every 2 or so years. Hmm, on second thought, not sure if that is better or worse. LOl

I suspect that I will like book 4 better than most people at Amazon did but I refuse to read it until book 5 comes out. But I will read it. It's just that if I read book 4 and book 5 comes out years down the road if at all, I will be very mad at myself for doing it. I have the book sitting on my shelf for the last 5 years gathering dust. Conor liked it and has been after me to read it but I refuse. LOL. But at this point I will probably have to read them all over again from the begining. Which I actually don't mind and was planning to do any way some time down the road.

Thanx for the invite. When I reread the books or the HBO series airs I will probably post more. Without trying to sound like a wise ass, I really don't remember them all that well any more. First readings of books never take well for me for remembering things. Conor was always bringing stuff up to me about the books as he read them and it was "oh yeah, now I remember that."

The smilingwood, that would be pure opinion. I'm sure some people hated the first three books. As I said I fully plan to read it but together with book 5 as one book. Just because the author is annoying me dosn't mean I will deny myself a possible good book.

And thanks Vision for the support. I think one of the reasons I'm so annoyed is because of Jean Auel, Mellanie Rawn and a few others, I swore I wouldn't start a new series before it was done again and I am mad at myself for breaking the rule with Martin.

I should apologize too as I'm sure that coming on here with my first two post in full attack mode made me out as a troll. I should have realized that before hand as you can ask Conor about my fighting with them on "certain" other sites. LOL.

It's just that I love these books and Martin is really frustrating me. Then when I read is latest "Not a blog" it was like something in me snapped.

 

[Ursa major]

Hi, first things first, I have read the first three books and loved them. So to the poster that accused me of not reading them, are you not doing the same thing your accusing me of doing? Thought they were great. I turned Conor on to them. Don't ask me to say much about them because I read the third book 6 years ago. I refuse to read the forth book because from everything I hear it's disapointing and only half a book. I will read it if this book ever comes out.

No-one said you haven't read them. I said I found it hard to believe you had - because one finds something hard to believe, it doesn't mean that you don't believe it - and I went on to state that I believe you had. My difficulty with your uncalled-for attack on GRRM's honesty was driven by your characterisation of him as an inept liar, which hardly fits with the CV of a successful author of books of intricate intrigue.

More than anything I am blowing off steam. I could care less if you guys want to stick with him or not. And you are right I should just stop reading him and look else where for other authors that release their books in a timely manner. And I have. What many of you aren't getting is that if I didn't care about the books, I would not have bothered to post here.

What we are getting is that you need somewhere else to blow that steam off, particularly where it involves ridiculous (and illogical) attacks on the character of a real person. As The Imp has said, this is not the right place for that, although you are more than welcome to discuss the content of the books, to the extent of defending one's theories and opinions of it to the hilt. (Personal attacks on ASoIaF characters do appear here, although we prefer them to be based on evidence.)

I would NEVER have read the first book if I knew he was going to pull this. I took a chance with him because he was timely with the first three books. And got burnt again, by an author who feels he's more important than the people that buy his books. No more.

Again, you're attacking someone based on your assumption that GRRM is conning you, not on evidence that he is (which is, sadly for your argument, non-existent). And GRRM is more important than his readers; to himself. As you are to you, and I am to me. You bought three books (out of four); you didn't buy shares in GRRM. (Apart from anything else, slavery is illegal.)

I truly believe the man is tired of writing the books and that's why we get these long delays in their releases. He appears to be finally doing what I wished he had done 5 years ago. Shut up on his site about all the other things he's working on. That's the part that galls me the most. The flaunting of not working on the books.

He's telling those who want to know what he's doing. He isn't flaunting anything. As for "finally doing what If I wished he had done...", he's been ill with a nasty infection. Or did you expect him to post from his hospital bed (an odd "request" from someone who'd rather he didn't post at all, ever)?

Oh, he has said several times or made us to believe several times that the books were near completion before. All of you know he has mentioned "only 5 chapters to go or only three to go." Or how about 5 years ago when he split this book and said the second one was almost done. He, to me is doing it again. Why? because he wants us to remain interested in the books so we will buy them. If he keeps saying they are almost done, some of us will actually believe him. Last I heard in October, he only had three chapters to finish. Then i read that the publisher said they were hoping for the manuscript before the end of the year. Now he says that he was going to make a announcement this month at a convention but the week in the hospital is stopping that. Come on a week? Your telling me a week is going to delay the release for months or years in his case? LOL. Your kidding me right? I've been hearing this stuff for 5 years.

Have you ever written anything. It's difficult. It's difficult even if there's a single linear plot and a couple of characters. New text in one paragraph can invalidate text in another. Where there are hundreds of characters and close on a dozen major intertwined plot-lines, maintaining consistency is difficult. Now if GRRM wrote illogical, inconsistent prose (I think we can see here how easy that is), few of us would have finished reading AGOT. Personally, I'd rather wait another five years than read a version of ADWD that had been thrown together. In fact, I'd rather such a book was never published, because not only would that stop me from throwing my money away, it would save me the pain of seeing a great series collapse in a heap.

Hey, for those of you that have no problem waiting him out cool. But I and others would like Mr. Martin to know of our displeasure in his VERY unprofessional attitude and behavior.

Then reply on his blog, not here. Or run for Congress on a GRRM Has Deceived Me ticket.

So I respect your views on Mr. Martin, maybe some of you should respect mine.

We respect logical arguments, not ad hominem attacks on some who isn't here to defend themselves.

 

[Ursa major]

Hey dudes and dudettes,

The Imp, I wasn't bothered by what you said at all and my annoyance was more directed at Ursa Major who tried to say I didn't read the first three books. I think that's what he was saying any way. Then went on to accuse me of some ulterior motive that I have. What this motive might be escapes me.

I wasn't accusing you of having an ulterior motive; I was implying a deficiency in logic and understanding.

It seems he was annoyed with me for accusing Martin of being less than truthful without any evidence which is true, then he went on to accuse me without any evidence. LOL. So apparently he can do it but I can't.

* Avoids pointing out the obvious. *

Ursa Major also said,

"In fact, if GRRM wanted us to think the book was almost here, he wouldn't be telling us how it's coming along slowly, or that he's had major problems with the plot;"

Indeed he has said that but he and or his publisher have also said on many occasions that the book is almost done. Thus making people want to hang on just a little bit longer for it's release. Hell, he said it was almost done on the back cover of book 4. And if I remember correctly, didn't Martin say he was actually writing book 5 along with book 4? If so then it's actually been closer to ten years for this book. Isn't that a bit much?

I refer you to my comment in my previous post about how hard it is to write complex fiction.

It's just that I love these books and Martin is really frustrating me. Then when I read is latest "Not a blog" it was like something in me snapped.

I can understand that: the delay in publishing is frustrating for all of us. That doesn't mean we have to sink to conjuring up unfounded personal attacks.

 

[hadd]

The post where he went hawking really made me snap.


Haha, actually i do understand the problem here. Especially the part of him being not able to write while traveling yet then choosing to travel a lot. But well there's really nothing to do here. You can hate him, love him...neither of those options will make the book come out any faster though.
It's always better to take it a bit more casual as you won't be killing your nerve cells then haha

 

[The Imp]

Just for the record, you can add me to the list of people that had sworn they would never start another unfinished series and started this one anyway. I don't remember the exact date, but I think I started AGOT some time in 2006, maybe around the beginning of Spring. My nephew, the infamous Patches who sent that email to GRRM a while back and actually got a reply, spent quite a while trying to convince me that the 5th book was going to be out soon and I wasn't going to be stuck in the middle of yet another series without an end. I hate waiting, and he knows that. I finally succumbed, and here I am, waiting for ADWD along with everyone else.

The thing is though, i don't regret having started. I respect and greatly admire the amount of work that GRRM has to put into writing even one chapter, let alone an entire book. It's amazing to me that he has been able to come up with all the different names that have been used for people, castles, places, etc., not to mention the weaving together or multiple plot lines in a cohesive and consistent manner. There have been many criticisms of GRRM, but none have them have been about plot inconsistencies, a truly amazing feat given the complexity of the books.

I think that most of the strong emotion associated with having to wait for ADWD is more about how much people loved the first 4 than really being upset with GRRM, even if people won't admit that, but it's also about a three book series that should have been finished a decade ago turning into a 7 book series that literally has no end in sight. It6's also about, and I'm going to step out on the thin ice here, the sense of entitlement that some of the current generation have, coupled with an extreme need for instant gratification. To be fair though, GRRM has also opened himself up for some of these crazy criticisms by blogging about what he is doing, is, watching football (how dare he), going to conventions (what a waste of time), going on vacation (who the hell is he to do that), etc. I think that some criticism has been justified, other criticism not so much.

None of the above changes the fact that GRRM is my favorite author, and I've done a lot of reading over the course of my life. I'll include ANY author I've read in that statement, authors of the classics, of great non-fiction, of fantasy, of science fiction, etc. etc. etc. The worst thing that GRRM has ever written is better than the vast majority of the writing that is out there, his best is unsurpassed.

In the end, I was the one who made the choice to start the series. GRRM didn't come to my house, tie me to a chair, tape my eyelids open, and hold AGOT in front of my face, laughing maniacally as he turned the pages, giving me dry bread and beer with lemon in it to keep my strength up. I DO think that GRRM has a contract with me to finish what he promised to deliver, but I also think that he's done his best to fulfill that obligation. Maybe that's what separates the people who are angry with him from the people that aren't

 

[Clansman]

Wow. Lively 'round here.

I for one started the series waaaay back when AGoT was released in the late 1990's. Werthead knows the exact date, I just remember seeing a silver book on the New Releases shelf with a neat title, and buying it on spec. I then proceeded to read it in three days and re-read it within a month. I think that was about fourteen years ago...

So what. There are lots of great books out there. GRRM does have issues with his work ethic (disturbingly familiar to my own), but my personal opinion is that he wrote himself into a corner somehow, a place that he never envisioned, and was in danger of creating a could-have-been-a-masterpiece like the Wheel of Time disappointment. So he put on the brakes, and started from scratch.

I remember an old post of Werthead's (someone help me out here) that noted that GRRM spent 6 or 7 years on the series before AGoT was released, which allowed ACoK and ASoS to be released in relatively quick succession (and ASoS was a simply mammoth book!). Then, four years until AFFC. Now six years since AFFC, we still are waiting, but that is in keeping with the amount of work that went into the beginning of the series.

ADWD has been re-written at least once, and much of it twice, and some of it more times that that. It has been a major struggle for GRRM to get out of that corner. As a result, the man has not wanted to work on it, because it is really, really hard, and he probably feels like a right turd for not getting it out sooner. It does not feel good to not finish something, but rather it feels really crappy. That kind of feeling does not spur your creative juices, rather, it does the opposite, and spurs your dislike of facing your failure. I know what it is like when your muse is being difficult. If you do not write, make music, make art, you really don't understand. Sometimes creativity deserts you for long stretches of time, and simply, you're screwed until it comes back.

While I feel he owes us the series, I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about the time. It is what it is: a work of fiction, and while it is of excellent quality, it is not the most important thing in my life. When it comes out, I'll read it. Then, for the next half-decade, I'll read other stuff, which may be just as good or better than GRRM (Janny Wurts, Abercrombie, Sanderson, Rothfuss all come to mind, plus I have to work, and I have a wife and kids to do stuff with, so I'll survive if the books don't come out in a timely manner). Hopefully, if he gets the series back on track with ADWD, then he won't need that much time.

Until then, chill dudes and dudettes.

 

[Eulalia]

Regarding hawking.

I personally don't resent GRRM for having a life, and not being able to write a books like this on a particular schedule. (have you ever tried to write when you are not inspired--let alone an intricate, huge, fantasy novel with tons of characters and locals?)

But it is possible hawking could be legitimately seen as research. The guy is writing about crows. It would help to know quite a bit about birds, so he can write from an interior point of view! He has written about an eagle warg. And, you know, a hawk would be a good pint sized model for dragon activity...

 

[soulsinging]

it's also about a three book series that should have been finished a decade ago turning into a 7 book series that literally has no end in sight.

That's what gets me. It's shades of Robert Jordan all over again. It didn't help that when AFFC was released he said ADWD was basically already written and just had to be split off from the rest and combed over. Now it's been 6 years... it clearly was nowhere near ready and if that was the case it was kind of crappy of him to lead people to believe otherwise. It was almost like he knew AFFC wasn't up to par compared to his previous books and he felt the need to apologize for it. I think he's written himself into a corner and doesn't know where to go with the story anymore.

Part of it, I'll admit, is me kicking myself for getting into a series that wasn't done, which I swore I'd never do again. I won't read any more until the whole thing is done.

 

[Werthead]

GRRM never said that ADWD was 'almost finished' when AFFC was done. In fact, he very specifically says in the infamous 'Note' that ADWD is "nowhere near done". Of course, he did also say that the book should be out a year later, failed to hit that date, and never gave a clear-cut explanation as to why (Rothfuss did something very similar but pulled things around with a long blog post explaining specifically what the issues were), though he's talked about bits and pieces through the years.

The fact of the matter is that in GRRM's judgement, and that of his editor, the version of ADWD we could have gotten in 2006/2007 wasn't very good and required a complete re-structuring of the book (so it now serves as both a companion and sequel to AFFC, not just the flipside) and a major rewrite of the material he had left over from AFFC, not to mention increasing the book's length by about 50%. In essence, he's had to write a complete, very large novel (between 1,100 and 1,200 manuscript pages) since mid-2006 as well as thoroughly revising and rewriting another 500 pages on top of that. For that amount of work and material, the wait has not been hugely outrageous (compared to say Dan Brown taking 6 years to write a 300-page book).

Better PR and better communication over the issue would have helped, definitely, but the creative writing reasons for the wait seem to be reasonably sound.

 

[digs]

I'm one of those that feel there is a contract of sorts between an author and their readers. I feel that as a reader and I feel that as (hopefullypotentialonedaymaybe) an author. It's hard to put into words without sounding like an idiot, but when you start a story as epic and involved as ASOIAF, I think you have a responsibility to finish it (although that all gets a bit tenuous, because where does a story really end?) Anyway, that's a little off track since GRRM seems to have every intention of finishing it...eventually.

I came to ASOIAF when a few books were out already, so I haven't been waiting as long as some, but I feel I've moved past the most painful part of the waiting stage and into acceptance. I'm not really longing for the next book, though I am looking forward to it, and if/when I reread them I'll probably get a bit desperate. In the meantime, there's plenty of other books to distract me.

 

[Mesanna]

I feel I've moved past the most painful part of the waiting stage and into acceptance.

This reminded be of the five stages of bereavement. Or, maybe, the five stages of waiting for A Dance With Dragons!

Denial: But ... but ... there's no way it can't be finished. It said in AFfC it was nearly done!
Anger: How dare GRRM watch football/write blogs/have a life when the book isn't finished. Grrrr! I will never buy anything else by this author.
Bargaining: If GRRM finishes the book next month, I will buy two copies. And I'll make all my friends do the same. OK, three copies!
Depression: The book will never be finished. GRRM is going to die. I hate my life.
Acceptance: Sometime, someplace the book will be done. I can wait.

 

[wolfpost]

Ursala said, "I find it more than hard to believe that you've read the books, where GRRM has written some incredible devious characters, and yet you still think that he's come up with a conceit that a first-grader could see through. Even so, I'm not going to accuse you of pretending to have read AGOK, ACOK, ASOS and AFFC, because I can see no other reason for your deeply personal and uncalled-for attack on their author; no, I'm going to assume that there's another, all too obvious, explanation for your belief in this absurd, illogical theory...."

Ursa Major, you clearly said, "Even so, I'm not going to accuse you of pretending to have read AGOK, ACOK, ASOS and AFFC, because I can see no other reason for your deeply personal and uncalled-for attack on their author."

That clearly implies that you do not believe that I read the books. It says you don't believe I read the books but your not going to accuse me of not reading them but essentially you just did.

Then you go on to say, "no, I'm going to assume that there's another, all too obvious, explanation for your belief in this absurd, illogical theory....

That is clearly implying that you think I have other motives. Or you are calling me nutz. Once again your not clear. Or do you not see that?

So I suggest to you, either you are back tracking on what you said, trying to use word play to twist what you said or you are having a hard time understanding what you yourself said. My God, do you twist everything you write like that? No wonder you think writing is hard.

Maybe if you wrote more clearly instead of trying to be clever, you wouldn't have confused yourself on what you said.

In short, instead of being a wuss and skim the edges of what you want to say just say it straight forward.

And please "uncalled for?" Martin has screwed the pooch on this whether or not you think he has writers block or he is just yanking our chains. So stop trying to act like he has no blame for this long wait.

Look, you think Martin can do no wrong. I think he's full of it. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Since it is very obvious we are not going to like each other, I suggest you drop the topic right now and I will do the same. I had done so until you had decided to re attack me. I even apologized for posting in anger. Don't take that as me being weak. I am very sure that the others here would rather talk about the books and the HBO series than read us two sniping at each other until one or both of us are thrown of the boards. I suspect that would bother you more than me.

I signaled you out because I did not attack you but you clearly attacked me. In my opinion, you are the only one to have done so. Everyone else disagreed with me without being overly rude about it. But you decided to make it personal, despite your half ass back tracking. You know and I know and everyone else knows fully well what you were implying. That I either never read the books or I had some motive that only you know of in posting this. Or that you were trying to dismiss me as a nut. Or all three. If you wern't implying that, why did you bother saying it at all? Oh yes you meant it.

So, this is over as far as I am concerned. Unless you feel the need to continue it? I feel your "idol" is a bit of a charlatan. You will not change my mind on that. I don't expect to change yours but I didn't expect to be attacked either.