HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!!

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

I think the idea ... It just doesn't fly.

Long post, didn't want to quote the whole thing but I wanted to make reference to all of it. This is a very good point and very well made. It would be very hard to agrue against you, so I wont. Mostly because I agree with eveything.

With Mel's leaches, It is one of those things where its ambiguous enough that arguments could be made for either side and, as in almost all theological debates, logic can't sway those who believe simply because they believe. Mel, and those who follow her, see it as proof of the Gods power, wheras I see it as a coincidence. The only real issue is that in this series, there is no question as to whether or not magic exists. It does and we have seen it. So now we are drawing lines in the sand as to what Magic can and cannot do.
As I said, I still am not convinced that Robb, Balon and Joffrey died because a couple leeches got burned, but it is an interesting notion to say that Magic can bring people back to life, but it cannot put ideas in a man's head.

In regards to the power of king's blood, I also agree but for one detail. I am wholey convinced that ONLY king's blood has power. "Power resides where men believe it resides". I think the only reason Mel needs Kings Blood is because she Believes she needs Kings Blood. It is her belief that gives her power. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. If she doesn't think her magic will work without King's Blood, her Magic won't work unless she has it.

 

[Yavannie]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Still haven't seen last night's episode since I'm in Europe and at work, but I read in a review that Talisa gets stabbed in the belly - can someone confirm that she dies or at least that there's little to no hope of the baby making it? If so, well there goes Jeyne Westerling, right? What about the Blackfish? *bites nails*

 

[Warren_Paul]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Still haven't seen last night's episode since I'm in Europe and at work, but I read in a review that Talisa gets stabbed in the belly - can someone confirm that she dies or at least that there's little to no hope of the baby making it? If so, well there goes Jeyne Westerling, right? What about the Blackfish? *bites nails*

You heard right. She's definitely dead in today's episode.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Still haven't seen last night's episode since I'm in Europe and at work, but I read in a review that Talisa gets stabbed in the belly - can someone confirm that she dies or at least that there's little to no hope of the baby making it? If so, well there goes Jeyne Westerling, right? What about the Blackfish? *bites nails*

Yup. We see her go totally Dead-eyes. No way she survives that.

The blackfish on the other hand, we don't know. They don't show him at all in the slaughter scene. He may have been one of the men who carried off the bride during the bedding ceremony since he is the grooms uncle. he had BETTER be alive.

 

[Tywin]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

As for Melisandre, while her true powers are still for the most part hidden, she doesn't have much in the way of king's blood (that of Edric Storm/Gendry) and her magic that she's responsible for. She burned some leeches. One Balon Greyjoy, one for Robb Stark, one for Joffrey Lannister-Baratheon. All three deaths occur, but not one of them is attributed to her. Balon Greyjoy either gets blown to his death by a stiff breeze, or Crow's Eye gives him a nice shove (and as far as we know, Melisandre has no involvement with the Greyjoys), Robb Stark suffers TRW, which is conspired between the Freys, the Boltons and the Lannisters (none of whom share any affiliation with Melisandre, as she's for Stannis), and there has been no evidence to suggest that she has any hand in, or any involvement with the players who conspire, the Royal Wedding. Sure, she makes the comment to the effect of "the Lord of Light chooses those necessary as instruments to bring about His work" and she could attempt to chalk it up to that, but that's no different than me *thinking* "I wish someone would beat up that bully who stole my lunch money," then go home and stab my voodoo doll made out of kleenex and duct tape, then bully gets beat up by someone else for a totally unrelated reason, and then me saying the next day, "Yeah, I beat up that bully."

It just doesn't fly.

You are forgetting the shadow baby that killed Renly.

Also, Stannis is not a "direct descendant" of Robert.

In regards to the power of king's blood, I also agree but for one detail. I am wholey convinced that ONLY king's blood has power. "Power resides where men believe it resides". I think the only reason Mel needs Kings Blood is because she Believes she needs Kings Blood. It is her belief that gives her power. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. If she doesn't think her magic will work without King's Blood, her Magic won't work unless she has it.

Obviously things (blood included) other than King's blood have power. Varys's testicles apparently had power.

As for "belief equals magical power"... well, the pyromancers just kept doing what they had always been doing and believed in, and then suddenly it was working better.

 

[Yavannie]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Yup. We see her go totally Dead-eyes. No way she survives that.

The blackfish on the other hand, we don't know. They don't show him at all in the slaughter scene. He may have been one of the men who carried off the bride during the bedding ceremony since he is the grooms uncle. he had BETTER be alive.

The Blackfish excused himself and went for a wee before the killing started - pretty obvious they're keeping him alive.

Seven hells that was a good episode though! So much canon! So much greatness! Arya/Hound scenes were priceless! And the wedding itself, that hit the spot.

Here's a good representation of a reaction shot of a book reader in the back and two show viewers in the front at the RW

 

[Brian G Turner]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Obviously things (blood included) other than King's blood have power. Varys's testicles apparently had power.

Interesting - was Varys castrated as part of a basic sex-magic ritual, or does this imply that Varys is, in fact, someone's royal *******?

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

You are forgetting the shadow baby that killed Renly.

Also, Stannis is not a "direct descendant" of Robert.



Obviously things (blood included) other than King's blood have power. Varys's testicles apparently had power.

As for "belief equals magical power"... well, the pyromancers just kept doing what they had always been doing and believed in, and then suddenly it was working better.

That is attributed to the dragons. This doesn't really stand as evidence one way or another. It is possible that Mel's magic became stronger after the dragons were born as well.

I guess you could say Belief+dragons being alive somewhere in the world=Magic.

 

[joshrackley]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

The Blackfish excused himself and went for a wee before the killing started - pretty obvious they're keeping him alive.

Seven hells that was a good episode though! So much canon! So much greatness! Arya/Hound scenes were priceless! And the wedding itself, that hit the spot.

Here's a good representation of a reaction shot of a book reader in the back and two show viewers in the front at the RW

It was a really good episode, but where's Coldhands? Looks like they may be excluding him based on Sam's knowledge of the Black Gate from his books instead of Coldhands taking them there. I sincerely hope they're just waiting to introduce him later; I was very much looking forward to seeing how he would be portrayed in the show.

 

[Tywin]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

The Blackfish excused himself and went for a wee before the killing started - pretty obvious they're keeping him alive.

And what about the GreatJon?

Osha is taking Rickon to the Umbers instead of to Skagos... hmmm.

 

[clownphoenix]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Osha is taking Rickon to the Umbers instead of to Skagos... hmmm.

The book had them heading towards White Harbor, but then somewhere along the way they go to Skagos, so this may still be in the works, just choose the Umbers because they are more well known in the show. I wonder if they'll follow Rickon at all in the show, or leave him until Davos is set to go find him.

 

[LilyDraken]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

And what about the GreatJon?

Osha is taking Rickon to the Umbers instead of to Skagos... hmmm.

I was also disappointed about the lack of the Greatjon in the episode. He's such a fighting force, and it took so many people to subdue him, his absence was a disappointment.

As for taking Rickon to the Umbers rather than Skagos, my only guess is to keep that storyline alive. The showrunners have already said that they don't want huge absences of characters (hence pulling the Theon stuff from DwD), and while Rickon hasn't been a relevant factor (he's even less so in the books), Osha is a popular character, Natalia Tena is crazy talented, and there's going to be a higher chance of interaction if she takes him "south" to one of the Stark's loyalist bannermen.

So while I get it from the producing side of it, I personally thought it an odd choice. They could easily have formulated this plan back in the godswood and split them up then, even if that was still sending Osha/Rickon to the Umbers. C'est la vie.

 

[TK-421]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Well, I think the last GOT episode has all but debunked any theories on Jeyne Westerling. She is NOT pregnant and therefore Robb has no child to succeed him. Otherwise they would have not killed Talissa and been so graphic about it. I suspect GRRM had a hand in how that was done so he can debunk that theory.

I think just like with Theon, we will follow Osha and Rickon. They cannot let actors just go for such a long period of time and then bring them back. They say they are going to Last Hearth but the Bolton's have played such a larger role in the series than the Umbers, it does not mean that is where they will end up.

 

[Tywin]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Does anyone remember anything in the show about where the Greatjon might be? The last I seem to remember him was in season 1 "Yer meat is damn tough!"

 

[juleska]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Well, I think the last GOT episode has all but debunked any theories on Jeyne Westerling. She is NOT pregnant and therefore Robb has no child to succeed him. Otherwise they would have not killed Talissa and been so graphic about it. I suspect GRRM had a hand in how that was done so he can debunk that theory.

I think just like with Theon, we will follow Osha and Rickon. They cannot let actors just go for such a long period of time and then bring them back. They say they are going to Last Hearth but the Bolton's have played such a larger role in the series than the Umbers, it does not mean that is where they will end up.

Until the Blackfish turns up I am stickin' to my theory that Jeyne is preggers and on the run with him.

 

[LilyDraken]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Does anyone remember anything in the show about where the Greatjon might be? The last I seem to remember him was in season 1 "Yer meat is damn tough!"

The last appearance he had that I can remember was leading the cry for King in the North! "The only king I mean to bend the knee to is The King In The North!" And then he's in a couple of S1 battle scenes, but I don't recall him at all from 2 or 3.

Good catch Tywin!

 

[TK-421]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

He has not apperared since season 1

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0305010/

 

[Tywin]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

The last appearance he had that I can remember was leading the cry for King in the North! "The only king I mean to bend the knee to is The King In The North!" And then he's in a couple of S1 battle scenes, but I don't recall him at all from 2 or 3.

Good catch Tywin!

Based on what clown posted above, that leads me to think that maybe they are merging Umber and Manderly.

Kind of a downer if they do... I liked the idea that this fat "useless" guy was actually a deadly force biding his time for the chance to whipe out the Boltons when it becomes dramatically appropriate.

 

[Tywin]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Until the Blackfish turns up I am stickin' to my theory that Jeyne is preggers and on the run with him.

This episode may have you... um... doubting that.

 

[Culhwch]

Re: HBO TV series sneaking in possible hints for the book series? !!! SPOILER ALERT!!

Well, I think the last GOT episode has all but debunked any theories on Jeyne Westerling. She is NOT pregnant and therefore Robb has no child to succeed him. Otherwise they would have not killed Talissa and been so graphic about it. I suspect GRRM had a hand in how that was done so he can debunk that theory.

I think there's been enough changes from book to show that you can't say that unequivocally. I'm sure I've heard that the show runners have been briefed by martin on how everything plays out, and it may just be that whatever sub-plot revolves around Jeyne in the books was determined to be superfluous or too needlessly convoluted and the decision was made to excise her from the show - hence Talisa and her violent, graphic death.