Torchwood

[Gav]

*Just realised that came out wrong. What I meant was :budget isn't everything. Sometimes the cheapest shows are still well written and acted.

True.

But you need a connection, something, for a cheap show to work.

What that could be depends.

Sometimes it's the script (generally it is).
Sometimes it's the direction.
Sometimes it's the deviation from the script.
Sometimes it's the look of the thing.

But there has to be something.

Torchwood is a mess. It does not know what it wants to be. it's not good enough to take an essentially teen show and add supposeldy a

Charlie Brooker, writing in the Guardian sums it all up quite well. I'd like to post the link but I am still unable.

 

[Dave]

This is the link for you:
Charlie Brooker's screen burn | The Guide | Guardian Unlimited

I've read it, and I don't think I agree with it. Torchwood has not yet decided what it is, but that is natural in a new series, especially a one with so many different writers. Which series settles down completely after three episodes? (2 episodes when he wrote that) Loner already mentioned the X-Files, though I can't quite see Torchwood being a replacement. I have to agree that it is muddled, but I'm willing to give it more time. The sex I could do without, but I'm not surprised at that given the previous work of Davies, and Eve is fairly Hot, so why not use it!

Charlie Brooker is wrong that Doctor who was only for "kiddywinks" but that adults found they liked it too. It was deliberately made to fill a gap between the football results on Grandstand and Juke Box Jury (watched by teenagers.) It was meant to be educational showing historical events, and this was a time when children were not babysat by the TV, they did not watch TV alone but together with their parents. If he can't do better research than that he should let someone take over his column.

 

[Loner]

The guy who wrote that article sounds just as messed up as he describes the show to be.
He sounds like he wants to hate it for purely cosmetic reasons but just can't bring himself to.

There must be something wrong with me because his description of Torchwood did not put me off in any way at all.

Maybe Torchwood is written for Generation Y? All of those people who are adults in the physical sense but still want to party, have their parents cook, clean and pay their bills while they sleep in on the weekends...
They are adults (with adult sensibilities) but still think like kids, you know?

 

[Ian8781]

Torchwood is, in my opinion, one of the best spin-offs from any original series. The producers have very successfully created a new show with a different 'feel' set in the the established Dr Who universe. I think the new series works brilliantly. My only complaint is that there will be no crossover episodes - having already done two major ones in the most recent series of Dr Who (Army of Ghosts and Doomsday - not to mention all the Torchwood references). I think there is room to bring the Doctor into a two parter of Torchwood where he is reunited with Capt Jack and the two work together on a major incident.

I love the series and as for Torchwood not knowing what it wants to be - Every new series takes time to find it's feet. Give it a chance!

 

[Loner]

My only complaint is that there will be no crossover episodes... I think there is room to bring the Doctor into a two parter of Torchwood where he is reunited with Capt Jack and the two work together on a major incident.

No, no, no. I disagree completely. (It's just my opinion, though)
I think it needs to get away and stand on its own two feet as soon as possible so people will stop comparing it to Dr Who and judge it on its own merits.

I hope it gets over here soon...

 

[Dave]

My only complaint is that there will be no crossover episodes... I think there is room to bring the Doctor into a two parter of Torchwood where he is reunited with Capt Jack and the two work together on a major incident.

Like Loner, I also have to disagree Ian. It is very important for any spinoff new series to gain it's legs and to stand on it's own if it is to succeed.

I too, also want to see Capt Jack reunited with the Doctor. I especially want to see the 'hand' question resolved (which is a spoiler, so go read the separate episode threads if you don't understand.) I want to know how he got from dead in 1940, to the far future, and then back to the 21st Century, where he keeps saying "everything happens". But that should come much later, maybe in a second season when it has become properly established on it's own.

 

[Coolhand]

Having now seen the a couple of Torchwood episodes (the orgasm parasite and the "We can see the future" one,) I've got to say that I completely agree with the Charlie Brooker review, and with Brian on this. It just feels like a really muddled, boring, half hearted attempt to do gritty sc-fi (ooh look, she’s bleeding and he’s bisexual) whilst also being camp sci-fi (Attack of the orgasm parasite! Now In 3D!)

The whole thing just reeks of a really annoying attitude too common in TV studio productions like this:
“Hey, don’t take us too seriously. we’re just sci-fi and sci-fi is daft and stupid” Which then jars horribly when someone gets brutally raped or murdered. The lead female is daft and useless and would NEVER be let near any decent government black-ops unit, and the rest of the cast seem to be equally bland non-entities. They should have just called it the Captain Jack show. He at least is a little interesting in a pantomime hero kind of way.

For some reason, unless it’s a police drama or a Jane Austin adaptation, we Brits seem to be terrible at action\sci-fi\adventure TV. Think about it. The Yanks get 24, Alias, Lost, Buffy, Angel, Babylon 5, CSI, Firefly. Star Trek. MacGyver. Airwolf. The X Files. Dark Skies

We get Ultimate Force and Torchwood.
And 50 re-makes of Jayne Eye every year.

Sigh.

 

[phase38]

For some reason, unless it’s a police drama or a Jane Austin adaptation, we Brits seem to be terrible at action\sci-fi\adventure TV. Think about it. The Yanks get 24, Alias, Lost, Buffy, Angel, Babylon 5, CSI, Firefly. Star Trek. MacGyver. Airwolf. The X Files. Dark Skies

We get Ultimate Force and Torchwood.
And 50 re-makes of Jayne Eye every year.
Sigh.

Life on Mars was good... and spooks is cool....

 

[Coolhand]

Good call. Life on Mars was pretty cool. But Spooks always strikes me as a less cool, less action packed, less interesting version of 24.

 

[Gav]

Although coolhand and I appear to be in agreement I can't say that I consider Macguyver SF - fantasy maybe...

I find it a little irritating that people constantly make excuses for what are basically lazy/bad shows. While it is true that sometimes a show takes time to bed, it is also true that you can see something in those sorts of shows to keep you hooked. That is missing from Torchwood. Dr Who is for kiddywinks; the fact that it appeals to adults has nothing to do with whether it is aimed at kids.

 

[Coolhand]

You mean you CAN'T fix a nuclear reactor with a twig, some bottlecaps and a roll of sticky-tape?
That show was LYING to me!

 

[ladygiggs]

You mean you CAN'T fix a nuclear reactor with a twig, some bottlecaps and a roll of sticky-tape?
That show was LYING to me!

Well, you can't. But Mac can!

I think Brooker's article sounded like a crap first draft that he hadn't really given much thought to. I don't know if the author is gay, bi, straight whatever, but the article also had a hint of homophobia. Criticise the over abundance of sex if it doesn't really advance the storyline, but who cares if there's a bit of intra-gender lovin' going on??

 

[Gav]

You mean you CAN'T fix a nuclear reactor with a twig, some bottlecaps and a roll of sticky-tape?
That show was LYING to me!

Sticky tape is no good. You need quality gaffer tape. Sheesh!

Macguyvery IS fantasy!

 

[Dr.Jackson]

I want to know how he got from dead in 1940, to the far future, and then back to the 21st Century, where he keeps saying "everything happens". But that should come much later, maybe in a second season when it has become properly established on it's own.

He wasn't dead in 1940. He was listed as 'Missing' when he didn't report for duty on January 21st 1941 ('1.01 - Everything Changes'), so he'd most likely have been presumed dead. Coming from the 51st Century would give him historical info on Earth, so having met and been influenced by The Doctor, he'd now be inclined to help the human race, so joining Torchwood would be the perfect way to do that. Gwen has helped him realise that they can also help individuals.
As for how he got back from the Game Station/Satellite 5 - I'm sure it'll be revealed at some point in the future, 'cos I'm stumped by that one as well!

 

[Adasunshine]

I don't know if the author is gay, bi, straight whatever, but the article also had a hint of homophobia. Criticise the over abundance of sex if it doesn't really advance the storyline, but who cares if there's a bit of intra-gender lovin' going on??

I believe Russell T. Davies (the creator of Torchwood and the new Doctor Who and who also writes some of the episodes) is in fact gay. Of course this doesn't mean it's ok for ol' Charlie to have a pop at him, although he may be referring to Davies' other programmes such as Queer as Folk, Second Coming etc (which have all been critically acclaimed) which have all had some gay content. I believe Queer as Folk was the first programme of it's kind to be aired on national TV (over here in the UK anyways) and was considered ground-breaking stuff at the time.

Davies often has a gay/bi/everything theme in his programmes but I've always been an advocate of this and have never minded it myself.

xx

 

[Dave]

I find it a little irritating that people constantly make excuses for what are basically lazy/bad shows.

I don't see anyone doing that here though. The comments are either that they like it, or they are being critical of it. I just personally thought that deciding it is rubbish on the basis of two episodes sounded like people had already decided before they watched it. Having seen four episodes now, I can't see it getting much better. I will be critical of it, but I'll do it in the episode threads because I don't want to spoil it here.

The lead female is daft and useless and would NEVER be let near any decent government black-ops unit, and the rest of the cast seem to be equally bland non-entities.

Actually after the fourth episode I would say they are worse than that. They can't follow orders or even their own procedures and rules, they keep secrets and all have their own personal agendas. They would all be dead long before now. Gwen seemed like a very intelligent girl in the first episode, but she is instead stupid and clumsy and unable to make decisions, and please, why hasn't she dumped that boyfriend yet?

For some reason, unless it’s a police drama or a Jane Austin adaptation, we Brits seem to be terrible at action\sci-fi\adventure TV.

I think it's a number of reasons. Number One is the cost. Syndication in the US in a much larger market makes it easier for them. It doesn't apply to the BBC, but advertising revenues are falling as the number of channels rise and the Internet gains popularity.

The BBC used to be good at SciFi once. Then people like Michael Grade came along who were openly hostile to SciFi and cancelled it. ITV also had 'The Avengers', 'The Prisoner' etc.

'Life on Mars' was good... and 'Spooks' is cool....

Yes, it can be made. I think 'Life on Mars' was the best thing on TV this year, and probably the last 5 years. 'Hustle' is also made by the same company. If you don't know what 'Spooks' is, in the US it known as 'MI:5' because the word has another meaning there.

It isn't a lack of good writers. You'll probably find British writers among those American shows mentioned. And 'Torchwood' has some of the best British TV writers working on it. It ought to be better than it is.

Davies often has a gay/bi/everything theme in his programmes but I've always been an advocate of this and have never minded it myself.

But is it necessary to add it into everything?
There seems to be a formula evolving that involves a weekly dose of sex. Last night it was 'Cyberwoman Cleavage' and Sexual Harassment in a cupboard.

 

[Gav]

For some reason, unless it’s a police drama or a Jane Austin adaptation, we Brits seem to be terrible at action\sci-fi\adventure TV.

I don't know why I never picked this up ... we used to be ok at this sort of thing but, for some reason, have gotten very poor at it. I suspect that is has something to do with a general malaise with the subject of science, a certain nostalgia for the past (we used to have an [Evil?] Empire damnit!), and the fact that we have forgotten what good science fiction drama is - and assume that it has to be made elsewhere.

There is a stream coming on BBC4 (is it a repeat I wonder?) of Brit SF. Anyone who has seen the old 60s teledramas for quatermass, 1984, [insert name of show about a nuclear holocaust - because I can't find it] etc should realise that Britain could do it. There has been a general dumbing down and promotion of, dare I say it, general stupidity that has resulted in generally poor TV we see at the moment. And I believe that this idea of choice (viz the many channels of **** on Sky, Digital et al) is at least part of the problem. It is certainly true that there are many channels and not a lot on.
Incoherent Rant over.

 

[HoopyFrood]

'Hustle' is also made by the same company...

Sorry to jump in with something unrelated, but my god, I love that programme. Some very clever writing in that programme...leaves you guessing until everything is revealed at the end...love it!

I'm intrigued by Torchwood, I would like to watch it, just because I love Doctor Who and I'm interested in this spin off. But, alas, it's difficult to get access to a TV at the moment, so unfortunately I may have to wait until various repeats in the future, when I'm back home and have a TV in my grasp!

 

[rune]

Captain jack a Sex Symbol! Not for me he aint

 

[Coolhand]

But is it necessary to add it into everything?
There seems to be a formula evolving that involves a weekly dose of sex. Last night it was 'Cyberwoman Cleavage' and Sexual Harassment in a cupboard.

-Dave

I think that was Charlie Brooker's point as well. He wasn’t moaning that there was sex (straight, gay or bi) in the series as such, but more that it seemed to be randomly and arbitrarily shoved in there (pardon the pun) with no real plot or character relevance.

Buffy did a gay character very well in the form of Willow, and dealt with it well. In Torchwood it just seems forced. To me anyhow.