Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

Again with the Tower of Joy. Refresh my memory, but isn't the Tower of Joy where Ned went to find his sister after Aemon ran off with her? You keep referencing the Tower of Joy in a way that makes me think that there is an abundance of discussion on the topic that happened in threads before I found this site. Would you mind elaborating on how going to the Tower of Joy shows Ned's dark side?

I think you meant Rhaegar, and 3eyedcrowseye essentially said what I would have.

BTW, I'm not sure where the "again with the TOJ" comment is coming from. It's not something that I personally have referred to much, unless you mean someone else. Lastly, I'm not sure how far back you've looked, but there are some great thories and discussions here involving that event

 

[Tywin]

Re: Jon Snow

I did mean Rhaegar.

I thought it was you that mentioned the TOJ as a must have for either a novella or for scenes in season 2 of the HBO series. Maybe it's just that my memory connects a lot of topics with you, Imp, you have a lot of posts and are in the center of a lot of discussions here.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

I did mean Rhaegar.

I thought it was you that mentioned the TOJ as a must have for either a novella or for scenes in season 2 of the HBO series. Maybe it's just that my memory connects a lot of topics with you, Imp, you have a lot of posts and are in the center of a lot of discussions here.

I do remember saying at some point that I think that they will have to get the TOJ into the second season, so that's proabably what it was.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Re: Jon Snow

As I wrote on my first post in this forum, my suspicion is that GRRM is actually well informed about most popular theories and predictions connected to his work. And he uses it to modify accordingly, giving us surprises and twists rarely expected.

If that is what happened to Jon, than my opinion is that he is going to put him in a different path than he previously planned.

GRRM may not decide to diminish Jon's role in the series (although that is also possible) but to take him to different direction his writing thus far suggested, and we all based our theories on. What could it bee, I frankly can not see, but my guess is to expect total turn in the plot. So something like Jon died and then brought back by Mel, but losing part of himself, his position in NW, and than goes south alone and tormented by everything that happened, and by reaching Winterfell he becomes it's ghost, is not impossible.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

As I wrote on my first post in this forum, my suspicion is that GRRM is actually well informed about most popular theories and predictions connected to his work. And he uses it to modify accordingly, giving us surprises and twists rarely expected.

If that is what happened to Jon, than my opinion is that he is going to put him in a different path than he previously planned.

GRRM may not decide to diminish Jon's role in the series (although that is also possible) but to take him to different direction his writing thus far suggested, and we all based our theories on. What could it bee, I frankly can not see, but my guess is to expect total turn in the plot. So something like Jon died and then brought back by Mel, but losing part of himself, his position in NW, and than goes south alone and tormented by everything that happened, and by reaching Winterfell he becomes it's ghost, is not impossible.

GRRM has staed that he does NOT read fan sites, or take any fan theories that he might hear at conferences, etc. into consideration. I'd personally lose all respect for him if he did what you suggest. I suggest listening to the "Google Interview" which is about an hour long and has been referenced a number of times on this forum. He talks in length about this very issue. Here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTTW8M_etko

 

[Eulalia]

Re: Jon Snow

I don't think Jon's dead for good.

But if he were, and some of his essence was left in Ghost(aha!), then he would try to save Arya as a wolf.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Re: Jon Snow

GRRM has staed that he does NOT read fan sites, or take any fan theories that he might hear at conferences, etc. into consideration. I'd personally lose all respect for him if he did what you suggest. I suggest listening to the "Google Interview" which is about an hour long and has been referenced a number of times on this forum. He talks in length about this very issue. Here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTTW8M_etko

Yeah, well, people lie, including GRRM. Won't lose respect for him if he does though, it just shoes he is crafty. Heard the interview, and many more. Read his previous work, and must say he IS great author. But ASoIaF is different, maybe because it is so broad, or because he matured as an author, but it definitively has a different story line than his previous work. And also long time gaps between the books. He is simply doing too much rewriting, and in my opinion books diminish in quality and increase in pause between them with each.

Said my theory, wont say it again, everyone is entitled to opinion. As he likes to underline so much in his books - we are all just humans.

 

[Mesanna]

Re: Jon Snow

GRRM may not decide to diminish Jon's role in the series (although that is also possible) but to take him to different direction his writing thus far suggested, and we all based our theories on. What could it bee, I frankly can not see, but my guess is to expect total turn in the plot. So something like Jon died and then brought back by Mel, but losing part of himself, his position in NW, and than goes south alone and tormented by everything that happened, and by reaching Winterfell he becomes it's ghost, is not impossible.

I agree with you Nenad, that I think Jon's story is changing. Too much has happened at the wall for Jon to just pick himself up, dust himself down and resume duties as Lord Commander. There is too much antagonism between the various groups and, as I said before, I think there is going to be an almighty battle at the start of the next book.

Here's a theory ...

The Wall has been one of the major focal points of the story, and it's been discussed in the past that we need a POV at the Wall. But, how about Jon goes off to aid Stannis in his battle for Winterfell, and Melisandre becomes the new Wall POV? This would also allow Mel to share more of her knowledge of The Others, especially if there are hints that they are about to attack.

Many of us believe that The Wall will come down at some point, as there has been a bit of foreshadowing in the text. The castles & fortresses that the Night's Watch use are built right up against the wall, so realistically, how many of these people are going to survive when a billion tons of rock and ice come down on their heads? Especially if The Others and the Wights are waiting on the other side to round up the few who do escape. Maybe GRRM has had to create circumstances for Jon to be sent away, in order for him to survive the destruction of the Wall and the Night's Watch?

 

[Slovian]

Re: Jon Snow

I think there is going to be an almighty battle at the start of the next book.

I think Winds of Winter will start with mayhem on every front:
- as I stated before, I suspect mayhem on the Wall (wildlings<->watch<->queens man) + probably Others will come in a moment
- at Mareen battle is just starting, and whats best - I really can't predict its outcome. While most probably Wise Masters will get blasted away, its also possible that Sir Barristan and Unsullied will get beating, since Dany will probably return there with whole Dothraki clan (so some good old POV killing might help clear vision a little).
- in Westeros we got assault on Storm's End, and then in short time we should have confrontation of Golden Company vs Lannisters and Highgarden.

At least I hope so. After Dance I would be glad if action speeds up.

Here's a theory ...

I think that indeed watch in its current form will be destroyed. And also I think that at some point Jon will travel south to remains of Winterfell - like in the dream that haunts him. Wall might not go down literally. Its said that Wall is as strong as man holding it - what if Watch cease to exist or is badly damaged and with no man at Wall magic that protects it will just fade out.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Re: Jon Snow

Although I said earlier that Wall doesn't necessarily have to be destroyed, my wish is that it does!

Everybody speak of the power and secrets hidden inside the Wall, it's time to dig them up! Ancient builders may have included them for just such occasion as this one, and something men once build can be rebuilded.

Night's Watch is outdated, and when time comes it will not fulfill it's purpose. Destroying it may be the best way for GRRM to go.

YEAH, MAYHEM in the Winds, got my fingers crossed on all four limbs for that.

 

[grip junky]

Re: Jon Snow

Here's a theory ...

The Wall has been one of the major focal points of the story, and it's been discussed in the past that we need a POV at the Wall. But, how about Jon goes off to aid Stannis in his battle for Winterfell, and Melisandre becomes the new Wall POV? This would also allow Mel to share more of her knowledge of The Others, especially if there are hints that they are about to attack.

Many of us believe that The Wall will come down at some point,

I hope none of this happens.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Re: Jon Snow

I actually hope it does, it's time for action, ADwD almost put me to sleep in some chapters.

It's time for the change of pace!

 

[Slovian]

Re: Jon Snow

I actually hope it does, it's time for action, ADwD almost put me to sleep in some chapters.

It's time for the change of pace!

Yeah. For me Dance was like phase of setting pieces. Basically there are two fronts, on which there is going to be lots of action. Mareen is in pivotal point - Wise Masters have rejected any peace talks by killing hostages, and by the plan Ser Barristan should command the attack. It won't be so surprising as it was supposed to be, so I'm quite unsure about the outcome. There is few more factors of Victarion approaching the line, who will attack port blockade without any warning (and probably crush all opposition on sea), and of course dragons that will probably join combat, and are quite unpredictable.
And as I stated before for a few times, I believe there will be lots of action on the wall. That don't suit well theory of NW==Lightbringer (which I like), but still I think there is so much tension between 3 factions at Castle Black, that it have to errupt.

 

[Timba]

Re: Jon Snow

Yeah. For me Dance was like phase of setting pieces. Basically there are two fronts, on which there is going to be lots of action. Mareen is in pivotal point - Wise Masters have rejected any peace talks by killing hostages, and by the plan Ser Barristan should command the attack. It won't be so surprising as it was supposed to be, so I'm quite unsure about the outcome. There is few more factors of Victarion approaching the line, who will attack port blockade without any warning (and probably crush all opposition on sea), and of course dragons that will probably join combat, and are quite unpredictable.
And as I stated before for a few times, I believe there will be lots of action on the wall. That don't suit well theory of NW==Lightbringer (which I like), but still I think there is so much tension between 3 factions at Castle Black, that it have to errupt.

I agree that the next book should be quite a page turner. I am hoping when it comes out to be able to set aside a window of time large enough to allow myself to simply gorge on what I anticipate will be a lot of action. I can't imagine how he sets the stage for the 7th book to be the last book unless book 6 really clears the decks a little bit. I also agree that there has to be some sort of major battle at the Wall following Jon's stabbing. You have a giant already on a rampage, blood in the air, NW turning on their commander, Queen's men, Wildlings and NW all intermixed in the fort. Simply has to make for an incendiary situation.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Re: Jon Snow

Many theories about GRRM's slowing of the pace on previous two books. I choose to believe that he is setting up everything for the last two books. Wouldn't mind if there are more than two, only if he speeds up his writing.

Well actually me, and many other fans, expect a series of battles in upcoming books. Maybe only wishful thinking, but got my fingers crossed

 

[Timba]

Re: Jon Snow

Many theories about GRRM's slowing of the pace on previous two books. I choose to believe that he is setting up everything for the last two books. Wouldn't mind if there are more than two, only if he speeds up his writing.

Well actually me, and many other fans, expect a series of battles in upcoming books. Maybe only wishful thinking, but got my fingers crossed

Fingers and toes here also

 

[Mesanna]

Re: Jon Snow

Many theories about GRRM's slowing of the pace on previous two books. I choose to believe that he is setting up everything for the last two books. Wouldn't mind if there are more than two, only if he speeds up his writing.

Yeah, I agree. Much of the timeline of ADWD runs concurrently with AFFC, so lag in both those books can be attributed to 'middle book syndrome' I suppose. But towards the end of ADWD, things did start to pick up, just as the timeline began moving forward too. I have high hopes for the next book. Of course I am a foolish optimist ...

 

[Tywin]

Re: Jon Snow

Yeah, I agree. Much of the timeline of ADWD runs concurrently with AFFC, so lag in both those books can be attributed to 'middle book syndrome' I suppose. But towards the end of ADWD, things did start to pick up, just as the timeline began moving forward too. I have high hopes for the next book. Of course I am a foolish optimist ...

I'm going to hazard a hopeful thought: The slow pace and un-interesting plot foundation of the 'middle book syndrome' may have affected GRRM's motivation to actually work on ADWD, and if the plot picks up he may produce the next two books at a pace closer to what we all want.

 

[Timba]

Re: Jon Snow

I'm going to hazard a hopeful thought: The slow pace and un-interesting plot foundation of the 'middle book syndrome' may have affected GRRM's motivation to actually work on ADWD, and if the plot picks up he may produce the next two books at a pace closer to what we all want.

I am jumping on this train with a hearty hi ho silver.

 

[Needle]

Re: Jon Snow

Yeah, I agree. Much of the timeline of ADWD runs concurrently with AFFC, so lag in both those books can be attributed to 'middle book syndrome' I suppose. But towards the end of ADWD, things did start to pick up, just as the timeline began moving forward too. I have high hopes for the next book. Of course I am a foolish optimist ...

Foolish optimists unite!!

I'm going to hazard a hopeful thought: The slow pace and un-interesting plot foundation of the 'middle book syndrome' may have affected GRRM's motivation to actually work on ADWD, and if the plot picks up he may produce the next two books at a pace closer to what we all want.

Good point Tywin, maybe middle book syndrome is harder on the author than the reader.