Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

My point exactly. Maester Aemon is a Targaryen, his Blood of the Dragon + The Wall = Long Life

If Jon Snow =
(Targaryen + Stark) + The Wall = y
(Blood of Dragon/Valyria + First Men/Children of The Forest) + The Wall = y
 
If:

First Men + Children of The Forest = The Wall

Dragonsteel = Valyrian Steel

Then Valyria IS somehow involved with the White Walkers and thereby the Creation of The Wall by association/guilt.

There is nothing to say that Rhillor is not a Dragon, as his power has increased since Dany's dragons have hatched.

If we go back to my Jon Snow equation, we can see he has at least one link by blood to the creators of The Wall, and thereby Greenseers.

I think Maester Aemon sensed something close to kinship in Jon right from the start, especially the House and Honour speech from aGoT. And from memory telling him that The Dragon has to have 3 heads, unless that was someone else he told, but either way it suggests that Maester Aemon has some kind of powers of prophecy.
 
Sorry, just to add if Rhillor is a Dragon, then he is at Dragonstone, and would account for Melisandre's obsession at one stage to awaken them.
 
Call me scientifically impaired, but what does the y mean in your equation?

As for Maester Aemon, I don't think he had any prophetic powers, he merely studied the stories of old - kind of like Old Nan, I think, except his were about dragons, not the North.

Another question/remark - why do you think the building of the wall has anything to do with greenseers? If I understand correctly, it was built by Brandon the Builder, one of the first members of House Stark, during the Age of Heroes. Possibly with the help of giants. I fail to see how the the Children could be involved, since they had just more or less been annihilated by the First Men...
 
Okay - I definitely am scientifically impaired - but the penny finally dropped. :eek:

I understand what you meant with the equation, and it is a very interesting parallel. I wonder if it can be considered as one more clue that points to R+L=J - because you need Jon to be a Targ for it to work.

As for R'hallor being a dragon, I'm not convinced - I think he's suddenly more powerful simply because magic is coming back in a big way in the whole of westeros - not just him, or dragons, but also direwolfs and greenseers and those candles in the citadel.
 
Hello- new here and enjoying these threads.
I just wanted to throw something out there that I haven't seen suggested yet (i could have missed it so sorry for any redundancy). Why was Bown crying during the Jon attack? Could it be HE was being warged by the wilding with the huge boar (can't remember his name)? And Warged Bowen charged his friends with the act of trying to kill Jon but Real Bowen didn't agree even though he disagreed with Jon?

I like Runic's theory... much to think about. And a long time to think about it. (thus "impatience"). I don't believe Jon is dead. I believe magics afoot!
 
Hi Katrina,

Thanks for the support and input.

The candles in the Citadel are obsidian, or dragonglass.

I know some of the magic orientated maesters were trying to light them, but what if, over the course of time, the information about their true purpose was lost (or in the catacombs in Castle Black or in Samwell's travel pack) and their true purpose is an early warning of the White Walkers?

A weak link, I know, but dragonglass isn't that easy to come by in Westeros and story-wise it seems to serve a White Walker purpose.
 
Also, Katrina, unless I'm confused, I thought that the First Men and Children of the forest joined forces to defeat the White Walkers. Some descendants living in the city that moves in the swamplands.
 
Yes, you are right. They fought together during the long night, against the Others. The war between the First Men and the Children came before that, and finished when they agreed to a cease-fire in the Isle of Faces.

I really need to re-read the whole series again, and not just my favourite parts, lol.
 
The truth of the matter is that not only do we, the readers, not know who was on whose side, but most if not all of the characters don't know, either. The events surrounding the arrival of the First Men on Westeros are recorded only in myth, as stories.

It so happens that some of the mythical stuff turns out to have a basis in fact: e.g. the Others do exist. But beyond that, nothing is certain.


I must admit I doubt the Valyrians were much involved in Westeros until the doom. Before that event, the only known Valyrian presence was the Targ dominion over Dragonstone. If the Valyrians were indeed one of the first human groups on Westeros, which they would need to be if they built the Wall, where's the evidence? There don't even seem to be any myths regarding them. (Which is not to say that I believe Brandon the Builder was involved.)


But here's a crackpot theory for you: the Wall was built by the Others, to protect and preserve their land of permanent winter. They are only stirring now because they fear the coming of Fire and the destruction of the Wall. (Let's face it, the only truly magical creatures up in the North are the Others.)
 
But here's a crackpot theory for you: the Wall was built by the Others, to protect and preserve their land of permanent winter. They are only stirring now because they fear the coming of Fire and the destruction of the Wall. (Let's face it, the only truly magical creatures up in the North are the Others.)
Click to expand...

OHHH, I like it!!
 
Just to clarify, I'm basing The Valyrian Hypothesis (sounds like a Big Bang Theory title!) on.....

Dragonglass = Obsidian = Dead Other.

Dragonsteel = Dead Other = possibly Valyrian Steel.

If Dragonsteel is Valyrian Steel, then the Valyrians would have had to make it, therefore knowing that it would kill Others. As it obviously has a magical element to it, which is why it can be re-forged, but not made at this point in the timeline.

Due to the above almost fact, I hypothesise that the Valyrians are in the same timeline as The Others and the Long Night, as there seems to be no other run ins with them to introduce the Dragonsteel element.

To be fair, it is still unknown that Valyrian Steel can damage The Others.

But as a new person on these forums, and feeling this is distracting from the whole purpose of this thread, I say "What about this Jon Snow character then, is he dead?" lol
 
I've finally read the scene, and I reckon, as evidenced by this thread, there are loads of ways for Jon not to be dead. I still think I would be amazed if GRRM kills him off after investing so much in developing not just him, but so many other things in other threads that touch on the Jon story. So, if there's a book open on it anywhere, my money's on alive and kicking. (and possibly running around the forest as a wolf. :))
 
Runic said:
Just to clarify, I'm basing The Valyrian Hypothesis (sounds like a Big Bang Theory title!) on.....

Dragonglass = Obsidian = Dead Other.

Dragonsteel = Dead Other = possibly Valyrian Steel.

If Dragonsteel is Valyrian Steel, then the Valyrians would have had to make it, therefore knowing that it would kill Others. As it obviously has a magical element to it, which is why it can be re-forged, but not made at this point in the timeline.
Click to expand...

I think that Dragonsteel being Valyrian steel is almost certainly true (way too many hints for it not to be) and I have this image in my head of Jon going around the great Houses demanding they relinquish their ancestral weapons otherwise they will all die, :D

What I'm not sure is whether that proves that they were involved in the first war against the Others. I mean - obsidian exists simply because it does - the fact that it kills Others is just a bonus. I think the same might be true of Valyrian steel - it was brought to the north, maybe by the Andals, maybe simply because of normal commerce between the lands, and they discovered that it had special properties.

Of course, that is mainly me playing devil's advocate. Your theory is perfectly reasonable, lol.
 
Thank you, Katrina, and you touch upon something that I was going to bring up, about the Ancestral weapons. Did all the Houses have one to help defend against The Others should they attack again? We've seen how effective Dragonglass is (in the hands of a self-made coward!), so a Lord or King, usually the strongest of his House, would have no problem holding back a few Others! I can definitely see Jon saying, look give me your weapons, and I'll make The Others disappear.

This may be in the Lannister psyche as they don't have one due to being descendants of Lann, the cheat.
 
Of course, it being A Song of Ice and Fire......

Ice is now Oathkeeper and ........ Iforgetitsname the magnificent

Where is Fire? lol
 
I'm not sure they all have Valyrian steel swords - it seems they are pretty rare and a symbol of status (thus, why the Lannister wanted one so badly). I think they would give humans a fighting chance - it would at least even out the field a bit, something that is sorely needed. A few good swordsmen, with Valyrian blades, in a strong position - who knows, it could be an epic victory.

As for Ice - I think you mean Widow's Wail, Joffrey's sword. That was the second blade made from Ice.

Off the top of my head, if you're looking for Ice's opposite number, I would think Lightbringer is a good bet - it is supposed to shine with light and produce heat, according to Maester Aemon. Heat/Fire, etc.
 
My thoughts exactly. It will be interesting to see how the Azor Ahai and Lightbringer works out in the scheme of things, if he is Jon (vice versa).

The original was obviously at the same time as The Long Night, as part of the Rhillor prayer is iin the Night's Watch Oath, not verbatim, but there nonetheless,

For the Night is long and full of shadows.
I pledge ...for this Night and all those to come.

In fact regardless of if Jon is Targ, if he is Azor Ahai, he is in the best place to come back.

I think either Oathkeeper or Widow's Wail, could be a good light bringer, as they are already red and had the blood of a loved one on it, (I think they used Ice on Ned, didn't they?) Perhaps Jon will re-forge with a dragon, lol?
 
Ohhh, so you think Ice will become lightbringer? That is an exiting idea!! I hadn't thought of it quite like that - I was stuck thinking of them as opposites!

Oh, cool new theory! :D
 
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