Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

On the NW = Lightbringer/Jon = TPTWP crackpot theory, here is our base to go off of:

1. Prophecy that Azor Ahai will be reborn as the Prince who was Promised:
"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

2. Synopsis of Lightbringer Legend:
Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer.

3. Oath of the Night's Watch:
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come."

Based on these three things we could have several options for how Jon = TPTWP and/or the NW = Lightbringer.

I think the simplest for Jon = TPTWP is the R+L = J theory, which also caveats with a lot of what Aemon mentioned about the Targaryens expecting some offspring to return them to glory or to their former powers.

As for The Night's Watch = Lightbringer, I think that we have correlations in their oath, and also in the 'forging' of Lightbringer with the blood of Nissa Nissa. In this case, Ygritte being killed by Jon is one option, or I would like to throw out there Jon himself could represent Nissa Nissa at the end of ADWD as the NW plunges their blades into him.
 
Tywin said:
On the NW = Lightbringer/Jon = TPTWP crackpot theory, here is our base to go off of:

1. Prophecy that Azor Ahai will be reborn as the Prince who was Promised:
"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

2. Synopsis of Lightbringer Legend:
Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer.

3. Oath of the Night's Watch:
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come."

Based on these three things we could have several options for how Jon = TPTWP and/or the NW = Lightbringer.

I think the simplest for Jon = TPTWP is the R+L = J theory, which also caveats with a lot of what Aemon mentioned about the Targaryens expecting some offspring to return them to glory or to their former powers.

As for The Night's Watch = Lightbringer, I think that we have correlations in their oath, and also in the 'forging' of Lightbringer with the blood of Nissa Nissa. In this case, Ygritte being killed by Jon is one option, or I would like to throw out there Jon himself could represent Nissa Nissa at the end of ADWD as the NW plunges their blades into him.
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And ygritte was, after all, "kissed by fire"
 
That's a cool theory - I hadn't read it yet! Thanks! And I can't see anything obvious that would invalidate it, either. Very nice!
 
Its obvious that the math is all there!

We know that Mance was an ex-crow, "the horn that wakes the sleepers" what if the horn of Joruman (spelling from memory) wasn't for bringing down The Wall, but to wake something hidden in it to help defeat The Others? (the action may still bring down The Wall though)

Perhaps created at the same time as the dragon horn that Greyjoy has, and by the same people?
 
If Jon is a Targaryen, then perhaps only he could blow them without damage?
 
As an aside, I wonder if those in favour of a SanSan hook up would describe Sandor as being kissed by fire...?
 
Hi... my first post here...
Read the whole thread (phew!) and want to make a point not seen yet in the favor of the "jon not dead theory" :
Every chapter of the books was named after a character: Cat,Tyrion, Daenerys, Bran, Arya,Cersei etc./ but not eddard, not robb, not robert, not stannis(!)), and, if I remember well, neither is dead untill the end of the "Dancing With The Dragons"- so Jon is not dead...
Yes, some of them comes later under different names (transformed by the events in the novel): Arya-Cat, Theon-Stink, Caitlyn- Lady Stoneheart and so on, kind of alter-ego(s) of the main characters, but nevertheless alive ...
The others (Ned, Robb, Stanley) seems ... expendable
I bet Stannis willl die (if not dead already),if not why Martin preferred "Davos" as a title and not the formidable, Iron-Will Stannis Baratheon?!
I could find more examples (no "Quentyn" as a title and the prince of Dorne is dead) but I think I made my POV...

What say you?
 
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Hi there! I went through the whole thread as well a few weeks ago - it's gigantic, right? Took me ages to finish, lol.

Now, as for the rest of your post - I'm not certain I understand what you are trying to say.

If you mean that G.R.R. Martin doesn't kill pov characters, that is simply not true - Ned had 15 chapters in the first book and he's still dead at the end of AGOF. I can't think of any more examples on the fly like this, but Ned is certainly the most telling in the whole series - I certainly wouldn't say he was "expendable" since he was such a central character in the first book. His death had huge repercussions and was very surprising - I for one believed he would be saved somehow, and wasn't sure whether to cry of mentally throttle Joffrey, all the while reaching for the next volume of the series.

Other pov characters he killed maybe didn't have their names on the title (I remember Arys Oakheart's chapter was called "The Soiled Knight") but I don't think that's a rule...
 
Katrina Stark said:
Hi there! I went through the whole thread as well a few weeks ago - it's gigantic, right? Took me ages to finish, lol.

Now, as for the rest of your post - I'm not certain I understand what you are trying to say.

If you mean that G.R.R. Martin doesn't kill pov characters, that is simply not true - Ned had 15 chapters in the first book and he's still dead at the end of AGOF. I can't think of any more examples on the fly like this, but Ned is certainly the most telling in the whole series - I certainly wouldn't say he was "expendable" since he was such a central character in the first book. His death had huge repercussions and was very surprising - I for one believed he would be saved somehow, and wasn't sure whether to cry of mentally throttle Joffrey, all the while reaching for the next volume of the series.

Other pov characters he killed maybe didn't have their names on the title (I remember Arys Oakheart's chapter was called "The Soiled Knight") but I don't think that's a rule...
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I was referring to the titles of the chapters, specifically ...
The title of the chapter you mentioned is not "Arys Oakheart"...using "The Soiled Knight" as a title, Martin suggested (IMHO)that his role is of secondary importance, marginal... As far as I remember, if a chapter' title is named "X(name)" , the character X in the novel didn't died before the end of DWTD
Let's see what's happens with the Starks:I didn't remember any chapter named "Ned" or "Eddard" in the first volume (I'm speaking from memories-don't have the book here, so correct me if I remember wrong :)) , or "Robb" ,and they are the fallen ones, but we have chapters named: "Cate", Jon", "Bran" and Cate, Jon, Bran survived ... this is also true for the others Houses- You can check it
 
OBLIVIONFALL said:
I was referring to the titles of the chapters, specifically ...
The title of the chapter you mentioned is not "Arys Oakheart"...using "The Soiled Knight" as a title, Martin suggested (IMHO)that his role is of secondary importance, marginal... As far as I remember, if a chapter' title is named "X(name)" , the character X in the novel didn't died before the end of DWTD
I didn't remember any chapter named "Ned" or "Eddard" in the first volume (I'm speaking from memories-don't have the book here, so correct me if I remember wrong :)) , nor "Robb" (and they are the fallen ones, speaking about House Stark) but Cate, Jon, Bran survived ... this is also true for the others Houses- You can check it
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You're right about Robb - there are no chapters from his pov, with or without his name at the top, but in AGOT there are several chapters titled Eddard, so I'm not sure your theory holds.

Truthfully, that's the only example I can think of, except for Catelyn, and she did - more or less - come back to life, so... Who knows.
 
Katrina Stark said:
You're right about Robb - there are no chapters from his pov, with or without his name at the top, but in AGOT there are several chapters titled Eddard, so I'm not sure your theory holds.

Truthfully, that's the only example I can think of, except for Catelyn, and she did - more or less - come back to life, so... Who knows.
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Thanks for the correction (years past from the time I red "Game Of Thrones", so may be some (minor) details where washed out) ... I take back my suppositions, but still think that we will meet again jon snow, my heart is telling me ( now this is high science! :D)
 
I'm hoping we'll see Jon again as well! And since I haven't been convinced by any of the theories so far (even if a few of them are pretty brilliant) I'll take your high science, lol!
 
I know many have pointed out the fact that Jon's wound smokes when he's attacked by those of TNW in argument to if he's tptqp or not or the many meaning to it if he's targ is he one of the dragon heads. I'm deff one of the supporters who thinks he is and as I remembered when Drogon comes to the fighting pit in Dany's POV WHEN THE APEAR IS IN Drogons back base of the next she mentions that. Seeing smoke rising from his wound as well. Perhaps this is a link and further evidence in connection of Jon being of targ blood and one of the head so he needs to live!! I like to think the mention of the Devon's wound smoking was suttle enough but still a possible hidden hint
 
Auto correct typo. Devon should be drogon. Dany's black dragon and most wild of her 3
 
Keebs411 said:
Auto correct typo. Devon should be drogon. Dany's black dragon and most wild of her 3
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Devon is a son of Davos. I'd say that atuo-correct is going to cuase you problems at some point, but............................. :D
 
I have since figured out how to take it off :) and so far even with the small tocuh screen key board ( sometimes I hit 2 letters instead of 1 due to it) I have not invented any new words or spellings. But ill take invented words over the wrong ones :)
 
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