Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

[Adasunshine]

Re: Jon Snow

I think he's being held prisoner/hostage by the Freys or whoever they handed him over to.

Perhaps someone would like to back me up/correct me on this?

xx

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Re: Jon Snow

Yes, the Greatjon is being held hostage.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Re: Jon Snow

But it doesn't really matter anyway because Jon has sworn an oath that he will not break. If he did I think I definistrate myself.

 

[foxtrot023]

Re: Jon Snow

On the other hand in AFfC, Cersei pretty much confirmed that Rhaegor was in love with Ned´s sister, stating that the ¨cancellation of her marriage to Rhaegor drove him to the she wolf¨, opening the theory that Jon and possibly another are in fact Rhaegor´s children, which would complete the three heads of the dragon with Danys.

 

[Weirwood]

Re: Jon Snow

I have a wild theory, feel free to shoot it down.

Jon Snow was born sometime during the rebellion. As was Aegon VI the son of Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne. Aegon and his sister were reputedly killed by Gregor Clegane.

If Clegane didn't kill the real Aegon (if a swap was carried out like with Bran & Rickon in ACOC) and if that baby had been given to Lyanna for safekeeping then Ned is the kind of person who would take him to safety.

I've never been very comfortable with the idea that Ned would dishonour himself and his bride just for a bit of slap and tickle. I can understand him raising Aegon as 'Jon Snow' to protect the realm from further war and to give Aegon a chance at a life.

Any reason why this couldn't be true?

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Jon Snow

Most theories assume that there's some Stark blood in Jon, if only because he looks like a Stark. Would the child of a Targaryen and Martell couple have Jon's looks?


(Oh, and Welcome to the Chrons, Weirwood! )

 

[TK-421]

Re: Jon Snow

I have a wild theory, feel free to shoot it down.

Jon Snow was born sometime during the rebellion. As was Aegon VI the son of Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne. Aegon and his sister were reputedly killed by Gregor Clegane.

Well, in my reread of AFFC, in Arys Oakheart's first POV (The Soiled Knight) we get the story of Rhaenys, daughter of Rheagar and Elia and sister of Aegon, as told by Arianne:

She was stabbed to death by Ser Amory Lorch and was not killed by Gregor. Her body and that of her baby brother were presented to Robert by Tywin drapped in red Lannister cloaks as a symbol of loyalty.

I understnd she would of been somewhere around Rickon's age.

 

[Koopa]

Re: Jon Snow

I must confess that one of the things i'm most curious about is wether or nor Jon Snow gets to remain alive in adwd. It's probably because he's one of the few archetypical protagonists in the books, and you can't help but start rooting for the few 'better' people in the series. I'm pretty sure that the first thing i'm going to do is spoil the book for myself a bit by browsing trhough the chapters to find out about his fate.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Jon Snow

Weirwood, welcome! Excellent topic for your first post! I did not even think of that on my first read.

I'm surprised TK did not post links to other threads on the topics of Lyanna, Jon, Rhaegar, Eddard, Elia, and Howland Reed. Give me a few minutes, I'll see what I can do...

Okay...

"promise me Ned" and "the value of Howland Reed"

SPOILERS: Theory on Jon

Jon Snow's true parentage

You should pay special attention to posts by Raven and Werthead. If I recall correctly, one of them lays out the time line of the events from the tourney at Harrenhal to Robert's coronation. Long story short, Aegon is too old to be Jon. With the time line and Jon's looks, either Eddard or Lyanna must be one of Jon's parents.

 

[juleska]

Re: Jon Snow

The whole R+L=J theory seems so thunderingly obvious to me I can't believe anyone rejects it. LOL

I could type up all my reasons for believing it but the best justification I've seen is found here:

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jon.html

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Jon Snow

Some of us are unsure about its validity because it is so obvious.

(I mean to say, even I managed to work it out on my own.)

 

[Boaz]

Re: Jon Snow

Weirwood, come back! Don't be frightened off because you saw R+L=J.

Looking back, it is the most obvious of all theories... and yet I missed it. But I did not miss the crackpot theory that Rhaegar, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Viserys, Jon and Danaerys are all secret siblings!

 

[Weirwood]

Re: Jon Snow

Don't worry Boaz, you haven't firghtened me off just yet!

I'm just on a reread of ASOS (the third time I think) and just got to the bit where Jamie is being led in chains to Kingslanding by the Maid of Tarth. One evening while sheltering in a copse Jamie reflects on the killing that got him his nickname and its mentioned that Rhaegar's son was an infant at the time. Using the word infant rather than babe or toddler (both words GRRM has used in the series) would suggest the child is somewhere between 6 months and 2 years.

Certainly not too old to be brought back to Winterfell as Lord Stark's *******.

 

[Mesanna]

Re: Jon Snow

Must admit, I would take infant to mean a baby, probably under a year old.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Jon Snow

Weirwood, good to have you here. I like posters with thick skins.

I dunno the time line. I don't wanna know the time line. The age difference is not a big deal to me. If Eddard needed to claim an older *******, he could have claimed to have retroactively sown wild oats.

All I need to know is that Jon looks like a Stark. He's more starkish than Robb, Sansa, Bran, or Rickon. Aegon must either look like a Targaryen or a Martell. Jon's looks mean he must be at least half Stark... and that means he's not Aegon.

And if I'm wrong on this... well, it won't be the first time.

 

[juleska]

Re: Jon Snow

Some of us are unsure about its validity because it is so obvious.

(I mean to say, even I managed to work it out on my own.)

I get that. But in a way, that validates the whole thing. It explains why Ned would have held the secret and never even told Catelyn. Ned was famous for his honor and if he said something was so then it simply was so. He did not lie, ever, at all, as far as anyone knew. If Jon's parentage by Rhaegar and Lyanna was so obvious to the reader, how much more obvious must it seem to the good Lords and Ladies of Westeros? The one and only thing that could convince people that something so obvious must not be true is the fact that Ned Stark says it's not so. And should any of them deign to ask his lady wife, they'd encounter her bitterness and anger at Ned's *******....lending confirmation to his verison of events. He suffered the lie in his marriage to protect the intgrity of his alibi for Jon's parentage, and it was just that alibi that kept the boy alive.

 

[Weirwood]

Re: Jon Snow

Good points Juleska.

The way I read Eddard is that he never shirks from the difficult duties, and the protection of the realm is his highest duty, even higher than his duty to his own family. Hence his acceptance of the office of Hand dispite his fears of what it would mean for his house.

Your right Boaz, Jon doesn't look like a Targaryen, or a Martell. But I don't think thats enough to discount the possibility.

I agree that Rhaegar & Lyanna = Jon is far more obvious, but as an earlier poster says, obvious isn't something we tend to get from GRRM.

Also I think I just want Jon to be the trueborn son of Rhaegar. The revelation that he's not a ******* afterall would add rather a lot of vindication to the character and open some real character development. To be a ******* of Rhaegar wouldn't put sufficient pressure on him to pursue his claim to the thone and leave the Wall. But being trueborn might. And i'd like to see him go through that moral quandry quite a lot.

 

[juleska]

Re: Jon Snow

Also I think I just want Jon to be the trueborn son of Rhaegar. The revelation that he's not a ******* afterall would add rather a lot of vindication to the character and open some real character development. To be a ******* of Rhaegar wouldn't put sufficient pressure on him to pursue his claim to the thone and leave the Wall. But being trueborn might. And i'd like to see him go through that moral quandry quite a lot.

I've thought about that angle as well, but I do think the society of Westeros would treat a "*******" born of two noble parents (particularly if one of them is a prince) with more honor than one that is, as they say, "baseborn" where one of the parents is a commoner.

 

[Lofwyr]

Re: Jon Snow

I agree that Rhaegar & Lyanna = Jon is far more obvious, but as an earlier poster says, obvious isn't something we tend to get from GRRM.

I wouldn't call R+L=J "obvious". It's obvious because people have had over a decade to reread the series and pick up all the small clues. I'd wager (generously) less than 1/10 of people reading for the first time through come even remotely close to it.

 

[juleska]

Re: Jon Snow

I wouldn't call R+L=J "obvious". It's obvious because people have had over a decade to reread the series and pick up all the small clues. I'd wager (generously) less than 1/10 of people reading for the first time through come even remotely close to it.

I just picked up the series in May when the show was airing on HBO and all my friends were talking about it. By the end of Game of Thrones I was asking my friends who'd read all the books if Jon was Lyanna's son and what was the deal with Rhaegar and the supposed rape. By the end of Clash of Kings I was completely convinced that R+L=J. I was halfway through GOT when I determined there was no way in hell that Jon really was Ned's *******.