Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

A few minutes after I finished DWD, I just had to know if Jon was realy dead. I just couldn't believe it. He is my favorite character and I don't think I can read the other books knowing he isn't coming back. So, I came here and read this whole thing, from page 8 to the end and I found some interesting theories here.

I still don't know what I want to be true. Somewhere, I think it was the real Jon who got stabbed by his brothers of the NW, but there are some things in the chapter that are a little weird, such as the 'they talked for two houres' or something like that.

What I hope is that Jon just walks 'on stage' well and alive, but that's just wishful thinking, I know. Or that Wun Wun the giant knocks everyone on the ground, or that Ghost bites the attackers (although he is locked up in the forge), or that his wounds just aren't mortal, etc.

But I guess we just have to wait until the next book..
 
hey fellow soiaf fans,

I have just recently finish the a dwd and been down for afew days, lol. Jon Snow IS my favorite character so I am a little bump that he got stab four times at the end of dwd. So I started looking to see if GRRM had made any statement of jon in the next book but nothing but i found this site and I love it, I been reading threats for days. All the theories of how jon can still be in the next book have really lift my spirit, with that I would like to tell you my theory on how I want the next jon chapter to start.

Jon wakes up in his quarters and he realized that he is ghost and has warged. Then melisandre come in and says, "I told you so, you know nothing Jon Snow." Then they go out and see that the wildings and crows had a fight over the crows killing him. But the crows won since they took the wilding and jon off guard. So then they burn all the bodies to prevent them from turning wights. So ghost/jon wathces as all the bodies including his own burn. However after all the fires are out, they see that jon's body is intact and healed of all wounds, the burn hand, hawk scratches and stabs. Then ghost/jon goes to the body and licks it and he raises in his original body. Then, melisandre realizes that jon is AA. This also fit her visions of jon going from men to wolf to a men.

Moreover, since jon died he is not with the night's watch and can march south with a wilding army to retake winterfell and hopefully meet Howard Reed and learn about R+L=J.

Also, this reminds me of harry potter who also had to died but came back "on." so instead of going to king's cross, jon will go to ghost before coming back or at least I hope.

Also, I can't wait for the next book, what do you guys do to stay sane while waiting?
 
Re: Jon Snow

I think the complete warg scene of the Prologe is just a way of introducing the reader into the magical field of the people beyond the wall and will serve later to the other books, when the Others finally come. It could also be more attached to the crow behaviour, but on that spot I think it is Bran trying to comunicate.

It wouldn't surprise me that it is not Melisandre who helps healing Jon but the wildlings and their magic. I don't think he is dead, but very seriously wounded, and might be off for a while, like Bran was. He needs to learn somehow to deal with the warging and if he is the third Dragon, there is need of major changes in him, because he can get burned (like his hand can testify), so a time in limbo would help him.

Would be uggly, but there is a third character that resurected and has knowledge of the world: Cold hands.
I just hope that is not the choice of GRRM for the fate of Jon Snow.

Any how, there is no other character there that can take the Wall and make it run, so Jon Snow has to stay alive as a proper human.:)
 
I just posted some of this in the "Dragon has 3 Heads" thread but since this portion is specific to Jon I wanted to add it to this discussion as well...

Ever since I finished ADWD I've gone back and forth on the issue of Jon's parentage. A longstanding believer in R+L=J, the scene of what appeared to be Lyanna, very pregnant and praying for vengeance at the heart tree, in ADWD had me wondering if she was in fact raped, either by Aerys or Rhaegar. But I just finished a re-read of ACOK and these pieces leave me feeling absolutely certain that not only is Jon the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but he is a legitimate son and not a ******* born out of wedlock.

First, there is this nightmare that Theon has while he is trying (and failing) to rule over Winterfell:

"That night he dreamed of the feast Ned Stark had thrown when King Robert came to Winterfell. The hall rang with music and laughter, though the cold winds were rising outside. At first it was all wine and roast meat, and Theon was making japes and eyeing the serving girls and having himself a fine time . . . . until he noticed that the room was growing darker. The music did not seem so jolly then; he heard discords and strange silences, and notes that hung in the air bleeding. Suddenly the wine turned bitter in his mouth, and when he looked up from his cup he saw that he was dining with the dead.

King Robert sat with his guts spilling out on the table from the great gash in his belly, and Lord Eddard was headless beside him. Corpses lined the benches below, grey-brown flesh sloughing off their bones as they raised their cups to toast, worms crawling in and out of the holes that were their eyes. He knew them, every one; Jory Cassel and Fat Tom, Porther and Cayn and Hullen the master of horse, an dall the others who had ridden south to King's Landing never to return. Mikken and Chayle sat together, one dripping blood and the other water. Benfred Tallhart and his Wild Hares filled most of the table. The miller's wife was there as well, and Farlen, even the wildling Theon had killed in the wolfswood the day he had saved Bran's life.

But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had only seen in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a grown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered wth gore could only be Lyanna. Her brother Brandon stood beside her, and their father Lord Rickard just behind. Along the walls figures half-seen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife. And then the tall doors opened with a crash and a freezing gale blew down the hall, and Robb came walking out of the night. Grey Wind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds."
The part about Lyanna is what really caught my interest. Her relationship with Rhaegar has always been signified by the blue rose. She's wearing a crown of roses, which tells me the crown ties her to Rhaegar, and Rhaegar being a prince must only mean she is a princess. And she's wearing a white gown spattered in gore. The gore must surely be her blood from the childbirth that killed her, and the white gown together with the crown tells me she and Rhaegar were in fact married.

I'm beginning to think that Robert knew Rhaegar wed Lyanna, and that he flat made up the story about her being raped. Does any other character contend that she was raped? No, only Robert as far as I recall. Every other character's account says simply that Lyanna disappeared with Rhaegar.

I think this is further strengthened by the fact that everything else seen in Theon's dream here are things that are known to be true and occurred in the past (the vision of Robb being the last and the only thing that hasn't happened yet). So if every death Theon sees in this vision, and the associated symbolism, is a known fact, the detail of Lyanna's dress and crown cannot be ignored and must be accepted as fact....that she died in a white dress wearing a crown. I think she died as Rhaegar's bride.

Also from Dany's visions in the HOTU:

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . .
This one has significance when connected with one of Bran's wolf dreams as Winterfell is put to the torch by Ramsay. The two together give strong evidence to the theory that there is in fact a dragon in Winterfell, and that the dragon is now "loose", which would help account for the further increase in magical powers that show in the books that follow. From Bran's wolf dream:

"The ashes fell like a soft grey snow. He padded over dry needles and brown leaves, to the edge of the wood where the pines grew thin. Beyond the open fields he could see the great piles of man-rock stark against the swirling flames. The wind blew hot and rich with the smell of blood and burnt meat, so strong he began to salver.

Yet as one smell drew them onward, others warned them back. He sniffed at the drifting smoke. Men, many men, many horses, and fire, fire, fire. No smell was more dangerous, not even the hard cold smell of iron, the stuff of man-claws and hardskin. The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone."
I think just as the fire Dany set birthed the dragons from the eggs, the fire of Winterfell freed the dragon there. What is the significance of a dragon in Winterfell? I think it strengthens the connection of Lyanna and Rhaegar as Jon's legitimate parents.
 
Drink. And post on the chrons. Welcome! Great post. :)
Ha ah, good to know I been meaning to try hot wine from all the jon chapters as a steward, so i might give that a try!

I love your theory above, never though of lyanna as the woman in brans dream.

Also, thanks to all for the nice welcome
 
Hi, first post here...
I have read most of the thread. There are some very interesting theories. I want to write my own. If they have been already mentioned and I missed, sorry for that.
I was pissed off like many others when Jon was stabbed. However, if you look from another perspective it is something which "must" happen for the sake of the story.
Let's assume Jon will play a major role in the defeat of the others (either as the PTWP or as a Targ). I also assume that the war between the others and men should spread all the way south. Otherwise it will be just between NW+northerners vs Others. So, the others should somehow go beyond the wall to make it a "total war".
Having Jon Snow as the Lord Commander of the Wall when it is breached does not seem very likely to me. He had to be removed from the position and GRRM has done it in his own style. Jon's assasination will definitely create a turmoil at the Wall and I think it will open the way for disorder and advance of the others. Jon's recovery can therefore be not so soon. (please remember that in the begining GRRM had planned to give a 5 year break in the story timeline).
About Mel & Jon arranging a skinchanging seems far too complicated and the way it is told does not give away that much of a "plot". What I expect is either Jon recovering naturally (less likely) or Mel giving a kiss of life (more likely). Being reborn with help of fire can also contribute to transformation into Azor Ahai. Anyway, I believe he won't immediately return to the NW.
I expect Aegon to be eliminated in the further books somehow. His eagerness can be his doom.
 
Hi, first post here...
I have read most of the thread. There are some very interesting theories. I want to write my own. If they have been already mentioned and I missed, sorry for that.
I was pissed off like many others when Jon was stabbed. However, if you look from another perspective it is something which "must" happen for the sake of the story.
Let's assume Jon will play a major role in the defeat of the others (either as the PTWP or as a Targ). I also assume that the war between the others and men should spread all the way south. Otherwise it will be just between NW+northerners vs Others. So, the others should somehow go beyond the wall to make it a "total war".
Having Jon Snow as the Lord Commander of the Wall when it is breached does not seem very likely to me. He had to be removed from the position and GRRM has done it in his own style. Jon's assasination will definitely create a turmoil at the Wall and I think it will open the way for disorder and advance of the others. Jon's recovery can therefore be not so soon. (please remember that in the begining GRRM had planned to give a 5 year break in the story timeline).
About Mel & Jon arranging a skinchanging seems far too complicated and the way it is told does not give away that much of a "plot". What I expect is either Jon recovering naturally (less likely) or Mel giving a kiss of life (more likely). Being reborn with help of fire can also contribute to transformation into Azor Ahai. Anyway, I believe he won't immediately return to the NW.
I expect Aegon to be eliminated in the further books somehow. His eagerness can be his doom.

Welcome to the forum.

I agree that The others will breach the Wall, and it would make more sense to have this happen if JS is NOT LC.

I still beleive in the glamour/warging theory :)
 
Hey Corvus,

Now that you mention it, Aegon *does* seem exactly like the kind of character you just now is going to be dead by the end of the movie. He's lightly developed but GRRM makes us think he's developed just enough to be on the "safe" list. Kinda like Quentyn. Yeah, you're right, Aegon is a goner.
 
I recently read the chapter of Theon from TWoW on the web. It is interesting when you have in your mind the letter Ramsay sent to Jon. He was telling that Stannis was crushed after 7 days of battle. Could that be true or not, I am not sure. Stannis is expecting their arrival so he would make a stand but it can still be possible that he was defeated after several days because of the poor condition of his army.
So many puzzles to solve. It must be hard to be GRRM. He created so many sub-plots and lesser puzzles that the story is getting bigger the more he writes.
I think he needs to stop creating sub-stories, hidden plots, and start solving them. Otherwise we will be waiting for the 8th book in 2018 or 2020:(
 
I think he needs to stop creating sub-stories, hidden plots, and start solving them. Otherwise we will be waiting for the 8th book in 2018 or 2020:(

That would mean a book every 3 years from now until 2020. GRRM just does not write that fast.:rolleyes:
 
I think we'll be lucky to get the next book by 2020, let alone an 8th book.
 
Wait, I'm confused. How many more books are there supposed to be? I thought there were only two remaining.
 
7 books is what is declared; but considering the way he is writing and how earlier plans for 3 somehow reached 7 it is hard to say he can finish the story in 7 books.
 
Considering the next two books will be 1000+ page epics, there is room to make progress. I think things will start falling into place and before you know it, we are at the end. GRRM said he is not introducing any more characters, so there shouldn't be any new stories starting in the next books, just wrapping up what is already there.

It's possible, just look at what Brandon Sanderson has done with Wheel of Time. Robert Jordan was developing the plot really slowly - there was no way he was finishing 3 books later the way he was writing - then when Brandon took over, bam, all fell into place and now only 1 book to go.
 
In any event, there is no way that we are getting three new books from GRRM in 8 years. I'd be satisfied if the man gave us two in that time frame (hope springs eternal), and finished this series, so that all of us could stroke it off our respective bucket lists.
 
It slightly amazes me that already it's over a year since Dance came out and there's still loads to talk about, and people discovering new things as they re-read. Maybe just another two years for the next one? *crosses fingers and toes*

Did you all see his recent Live Journal post where he celebrated that Dance has been in the NY Times bestseller list for 52 weeks and he promised us that "the best is yet to come"? I'm going to take the man at his word!

Corvus, a belated welcome to the forum! I think your point about the five year gap is a good one and not something that's been considered much. What was going to happen at the Wall for five years, while the Stark kids grew up? I think GRRM definitely wants Jon out of the way, so events can develop there (and who's to say he doesn't want him permanently out the way!!) I think the Night's Watch have tough times ahead. It's almost guaranteed that they're going to be attacked from the North by the Others, but I also wonder if they might be facing attacks from the South too. If people are starving and word gets out that there's food at the wall (and they're feeding Wildlings, for goodness sake), well, desperate people will do desperate things. They might be fending off attacks from the South too. I don't think the Night's Watch are going to be in any position to stop the Others, no matter what shape (ha!) Jon is in.
 
Thanks for the greeting!
I agree it is possible to see NW attacked from North and South; but you know, everything is possible with GRRM.
I make similar guesses on the events but I gave up getting attached to them because he generally takes some other road and my guesses for particular events fail. On my guess about the overall plot though; I'm a believer on that one. Others will invade. Fall of some important houses will be caused by the others, not by the current rivalries.
Also, I believe the battle between Ptwp & others will be very near the end of the series. So, I do not expect to see it soon. Anyway, who knows, GRRM is a master of surprise, isn't he?
 

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