Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

[JagLover]

Re: Jon Snow

I find it hard to believe that Jon Snow is really dead. When a key character has been removed before it is usually certain they are dead, and when there is doubt, as with Brienne, they turn out to be alive.

There are two possible ways that he could still be alive, and in his own body, the healing powers of the red priests, or the kiss of live.

He has been so fundamental to the plot, and his has been the key POV for the most important battle, that against the others, that I would be very surprised if that is an end to his story.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

I find it hard to believe that Jon Snow is really dead. When a key character has been removed before it is usually certain they are dead, and when there is doubt, as with Brienne, they turn out to be alive.

There are two possible ways that he could still be alive, and in his own body, the healing powers of the red priests, or the kiss of live.

He has been so fundamental to the plot, and his has been the key POV for the most important battle, that against the others, that I would be very surprised if that is an end to his story.

I agree. To put it another way, if Jon is dead and buried, there would be a tremendous hole in the plot, which IMo would leave the remaining story in ruins. The question is not "is Jon going to live'? but rather, what will the cricumstances be that allow his characvter to continue in the story

 

[hadd]

Re: Jon Snow

I've3 been reading over the House of Undying prophecy, the Rhaegar section in particular. i'm totally convinced now that-

The woman with Rhaegar was Lyanna Stark

Jon Snow is the true Aegon.

Aegon/Young Griff is a feint contrived by Varys to buy time.

Jon=Aegon=Azor Ahai. He will be re-born when he is ressurrected after dying at the end of ADWD. He will the the unifying force that bonds ice with Fire and will probably NOT be one of the heads of the dragon.

Apologies if this isn't new, but it's new to ME I've never thought of the woman with Rhaegar in the vision as being Lyanna.

I doubt Young Griff is a "feint" because as far as I remember he had the physical traits of the Targaryens. I doubt Aegon will be the promised one or something though. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets killed at Storm's End or somewhere very soon but he does seem like a proper Targaryen.

As Jon on the other hand still lacks all the Targaryen traits (I know, I know - it might be that the Stark genes are just so bloody strong)... Also I would find it sort of a bummer when Jon is like connected to both the North and the fiery dragon line of Westeros. I'd rather see him do some awesome warg stuff.

I'm putting my money on the next Jon chapter starting with him "being in Ghost", having his wolf-dreams!

 

[Koopa]

Re: Jon Snow

If the purpose of Jon's death was mere schock value and to remind everyone that no one is safe, GRRM has certainly succeeded. Unlike with eddard and Robb though i really don't want it to be true. Perhaps because in AGOT i could live with Ned dying because of the story and the process of the other characters involved. Robb was never a POV and his death made sense to me, given the state the north was in. But Jon's death no matter how i look upon it seems senseless. And with no real purpose. except if Jon as mentioned as someone as the tragic story of the Lord commander who did everything right for the protection against the others only to be overriden by his own men leading to the downfall of the wall, and the invasion of the others.

So where does this leave Samwell? Will he join dany when she comes north, will Sam became a player in dorne? Will Sam who might possible have the horn of winter wake become an unlikely hero. has GRRM decided to make him from the very start wrote him after Frodo's companion, is he Neville longbottom asoiaf equivalent?

 

[waveryder]

Re: Jon Snow

Not dead, but hopefully not another Beric Dondarion.

 

[waveryder]

Re: Jon Snow

I have read on this forum and one other that Jon Snow could be the offspring of Rhaegar and Lynanna Stark. But in book five Bran sees a vision of his father praying in the Winterfell weirwood asking for his wife's forgiveness. If he is not seeking pardon for fathering Jon Snow, what did he do that requires Catelyn's forgiveness?

 

[C Of K]

Re: Jon Snow

Good point. But I think Cat felt betrayed that Ned brought the ******* home to Winterfell, to be raised alongside her sons and daughters. The Tully words are family, duty, honor. I think these words personified her character. Ned could have left Jon in the care of someone else, and life at Winterfell probably could have been a lot smoother for the Stark household.

 

[waveryder]

Re: Jon Snow

The Tully words are family, duty, honor. .

And the Ned Stark character was really devoted to his wife. And whether Jon was his ******* or not, by playing the role of the faithless husband (to protect Jon Snow's identity ) he would dishonor Catelyn just as surely as he would if Jon were his ******* son. In either case he would hate himself for the pain he caused her for certain.....

 

[Culhwch]

Re: Jon Snow

So where does this leave Samwell? Will he join dany when she comes north, will Sam became a player in dorne? Will Sam who might possible have the horn of winter wake become an unlikely hero. has GRRM decided to make him from the very start wrote him after Frodo's companion, is he Neville longbottom asoiaf equivalent?

That's an interesting thought - Samwell Tarly as a Samwise Gamgee equivalent...

 

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

That's an interesting thought - Samwell Tarly as a Samwise Gamgee equivalent...

One wolf to rule them all, One wolf to find them, one wolf to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.

North of the Wall, where the Others lie.

 

[C Of K]

Re: Jon Snow

And the Ned Stark character was really devoted to his wife. And whether Jon was his ******* or not, by playing the role of the faithless husband (to protect Jon Snow's identity ) he would dishonor Catelyn just as surely as he would if Jon were his ******* son. In either case he would hate himself for the pain he caused her for certain.....

The thing about Ned was, he wasn't above dishonoring his family in order to save the family. When he decided to lie, and admit to treason in front of all of King's Landing,he dishonored his family, but he saved Sansa. I think even Cat would have understood that decision. If Ned is indeed lying in order to save the son of his sister, I could see him dishonoring Cat.

I think one of the reasons Ned did eventually love her is because he saw how hard it was for her to put up with Jon at Winterfell. Had she completely forbade him to keep Jon there, they may have loved each other, but I think their relationship would have been somewhat different. Maybe not so much a failure as Robert's and Cersei's was, but I don't think they would have bonded exactly the same as they did.

 

[vanslyke]

Re: Jon Snow

I have read on this forum and one other that Jon Snow could be the offspring of Rhaegar and Lynanna Stark. But in book five Bran sees a vision of his father praying in the Winterfell weirwood asking for his wife's forgiveness. If he is not seeking pardon for fathering Jon Snow, what did he do that requires Catelyn's forgiveness?

Agreed. He also says in AGOT that he disgraced his wife and himself in the eyes of gods and men.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

Agreed. He also says in AGOT that he disgraced his wife and himself in the eyes of gods and men.

Wasn't there a reference in either the DIscarded knight or possibly the Queensguard, about Ned and Ashara Dayne?

Here's the reference I was thinking of

But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?

 

[viZion]

Re: Jon Snow

I have read on this forum and one other that Jon Snow could be the offspring of Rhaegar and Lynanna Stark. But in book five Bran sees a vision of his father praying in the Winterfell weirwood asking for his wife's forgiveness. If he is not seeking pardon for fathering Jon Snow, what did he do that requires Catelyn's forgiveness?

If Jon is not his son then he's begging his wife's forgiveness for lying to her all those years.

 

[deathstar]

Re: Jon Snow

I have not searched to see if this has been answered but in regard to Jon's heritage, in ADWD when Davos is speaking to Lord Godric on the 3 sisters

Lord Godric states that at the start of Robert's rebellion Ned had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and found a fisherman to carry him across the bite. A storm caught them, the fisherman drowned but his Daughter got Stark to the Sisters although Stark left her with a bag of silver and a ******* in her Belly. "Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

What is the take on this with respect to the theories here

 

[vanslyke]

Re: Jon Snow

It's very interesting for sure. Makes me even more sure that he's Neds. Although, why wouldn't he just leave her with the silver and the kid and keep sending her silver now and then? Unless she died shortly after giving birth to Jon and Ned picked him up on his way back to Winterfell.

 

[C Of K]

Re: Jon Snow

I have not searched to see if this has been answered but in regard to Jon's heritage, in ADWD when Davos is speaking to Lord Godric on the 3 sisters

Lord Godric states that at the start of Robert's rebellion Ned had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and found a fisherman to carry him across the bite. A storm caught them, the fisherman drowned but his Daughter got Stark to the Sisters although Stark left her with a bag of silver and a ******* in her Belly. "Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

What is the take on this with respect to the theories here

A very good passage. I do have to wonder how reliable Lord Godric's information is. There is something I find strange about his account, though I can't rule anything out, or prove anything. I just find it a bit strange.

First, Ned enlists the aid of a fisherman's daughter. I imagine he left her quite early into her pregnancy, and yet, nine months later she names the boy after Jon Arryn. I have a hard time believing a fisherman's daughter had that close of a relationship with Jon Arryn. She could have had any number of reasons for doing such a thing. Maybe Ned asked her to name the child Jon. Still, I find the story a little bit fishy.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Re: Jon Snow

I have not searched to see if this has been answered but in regard to Jon's heritage, in ADWD when Davos is speaking to Lord Godric on the 3 sisters

Lord Godric states that at the start of Robert's rebellion Ned had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and found a fisherman to carry him across the bite. A storm caught them, the fisherman drowned but his Daughter got Stark to the Sisters although Stark left her with a bag of silver and a ******* in her Belly. "Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

What is the take on this with respect to the theories here

Welcome to the forums. Great first post!

Everything we know about Ned says that this can't be. I mean, he was honorable and the works. I am not likely to believe this. Godric probably wanted to discredit Ned somehow. I can't get on the Tower of the Hand right now, otherwise I would give you more information, but I doubt that this is true.

Godric Borrell, lord of Sweetsister, is that him?

 

[TK-421]

Re: Jon Snow

I'll keep this short and sweet.

I believe that Barristan confirms Jon's heritage: He is the son of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne.

It was a much stronger lead than the earlier subtle note in a Dany chapter on Rheagar.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Jon Snow

I'll keep this short and sweet.

I believe that Barristan confirms Jon's heritage: He is the son of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne.

It was a much stronger lead than the earlier subtle note in a Dany chapter on Rheagar.

Wasn't it said in that BFS chapter that Ashara threw herself out of a window because of the grief she bore after losing her child?