The Valonqar

Clansman, your arguments are good ones and I agree to the point that there was a reason why GRRM put Sansa and Tyrion together and it was more than to humble Sansa and her visions of knights and courts or to show the compassion Tyrion can have towards others. Something politically will come of it but not sure it is killing Cersei.

Oh, and who says you have to take the wedding dress off... ;)
 
I've been away for ages and TK is still a dirty canuck :p

I've always thought of Tyrion being the Valonqar mentioned, but the more I saw Cersei and Jamie move apart, the more I think that it's some sort of last ditch attempts by Cersei to make up with her twin that goes horribly wrong.
 
I think Digs is on to something. There's a reason the prophecy uses the word valonqar rather than little brother.

Personally, I'm thinking it's a position or title, or the slang term for one.
 
Syphon, I believe that valonqar literally means little brother. Jaime or Tyrion.

Unless you actually beleive one of my crazy ideas that Aerys fathered Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Jon, and Dany... then Jon becomes Ceresei's valonqar.... and if you 1) take the concept that dragons are asexual, 2) remember just like how "The Prince that was promised" was mistranslated because the Valyrian word for prince is gender neutral meaning either prince or princess that maybe the same thing is happening here with valonqar... maybe it means "younger sibling", 3) think about how Cersei is also worried about how a younger and more beautiful queen will supplant her, and 4) click your heels three times and say "I wish it were so", then Dany also becomes Cersei's valonqar.
 
Boaz said:
Syphon, I believe that valonqar literally means little brother. Jaime or Tyrion.

Unless you actually beleive one of my crazy ideas that Aerys fathered Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Jon, and Dany... then Jon becomes Ceresei's valonqar.... and if you 1) take the concept that dragons are asexual, 2) remember just like how "The Prince that was promised" was mistranslated because the Valyrian word for prince is gender neutral meaning either prince or princess that maybe the same thing is happening here with valonqar... maybe it means "younger sibling", 3) think about how Cersei is also worried about how a younger and more beautiful queen will supplant her, and 4) click your heels three times and say "I wish it were so", then Dany also becomes Cersei's valonqar.
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Although that is one hell of a theory, i'd like to believe that Dany isn't going to be both the valonqar and the shinier and prettier new queen who casts Cersei away from the iron throne :rolleyes:
 
I'm going to assume the valonqar is male because he is said to be. Maggy told Cersei that he would wrap "his" hands around her pale throat. Though Cersei may be misremembering.

I'm somewhat tickled by the notion that Jaime is ruled out on account of only having one hand, though. Tyrion throttled Shae with hands, too, as I recall. A chain of hands. ;)

But, who knows? Maybe it'll be Kevin Lannister who does her in. :p
 
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Hey, haven't heard Kevan Lannister as a candidate yet! Some people think that "Little Brother" could apply to anyone who has an older sibling, and Kevan would certainly qualify as Tywin's younger brother, and I like the chain of hands idea too. I still want it to be Jaime, though. Statistically, people are more often done in by their loved ones and Cersei and Jaime have quite a history!

PS Welcome to the forums Ulicus :)
 
Welcome Ulicus.
Ulicus said:
I'm going to assume the valonqar is male because he is said to be.
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Just like I assumed Jon is actually Eddard's son because he is said to be. Just like Aemon assumed Prince meant Rhaegar.
 
Appreciate the welcomes, guys. :)

Boaz said:
Just like I assumed Jon is actually Eddard's son because he is said to be. Just like Aemon assumed Prince meant Rhaegar.
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It's not the same, really.

If you accept that Cersei will die at the hands of this "valonqar" then, presumably, you do so because you believe Maggy's prophecies to be accurate. And Maggy -- again, assuming Cersei's memory is genuine -- refers to "his" hands. If you decide to play pick-and-mix, how do you draw the line? Why is it okay to ignore "his hands" but not "valonqar"?

The only way I can see the Valonqar being female is if it's Arya using a "magic-assassin" glamour to appear male. ;)

Still, I'm expecting it to be Jaime... and as much as I loathe Cersei, I think it's going to be really rather sad. Though I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out to be someone different. Unless it really was Tyrion. That'd be a pretty good double-bluff on Martin's part.

Though Kevan wasn't a terrible idea....
 
I think it will be Tyrion. He might not use his actual hands though. Maybe he'll poison her with the Tears of Lys, which is like being strangled.
 
Ulicus, thanks for taking my post in a positive manner. I, uh, forgot that we have a rule not to criticize a poster in any way until his fifteenth or twentieth post... I forget. I forget a lot of things.

In our shared attempts to figure out valonqar we've broadened the scope from Cersei's little brother to almost anyone's little brother. I think valonqar must at least mean a kinsman of Cersei. Since I don't want to stretch the meaning much beyond Cersei's little brother, I'll stretch the concept of who her little brothers can be...

Kevan is definitely a kinsman. And I would not be surprised in the slightest to find out that is involved in Cersei's downfall. At the least, he'll look the other way.

Here are two ideas from a co-worker. He just finished AFFC last week. At least you guys only have to see my posts here... and you can scroll on by. My poor friend has been trapped with me for five years listening to my theories and my sermons.

Anyway... Here's his first idea. Tommen will figure decisively in Cersei's downfall. Tommen could be called the little brother. But my friend is certain that someone will hand Tommen a parchment for him to affix his seal and little Tommen will unknowingly sign Cersei's death warrant.

The second idea is that the current High Septon is the valonqar. He was a sparrow. He's a little brother... a little brother of the poor.

Usually, I'd pass on these ideas as my own, but I've a feeling that he might soon join us here in the Chronicles.
 
Boaz said:
Ulicus, thanks for taking my post in a positive manner. I, uh, forgot that we have a rule not to criticize a poster in any way until his fifteenth or twentieth post... I forget. I forget a lot of things.

In our shared attempts to figure out valonqar we've broadened the scope from Cersei's little brother to almost anyone's little brother. I think valonqar must at least mean a kinsman of Cersei. Since I don't want to stretch the meaning much beyond Cersei's little brother, I'll stretch the concept of who her little brothers can be...

Kevan is definitely a kinsman. And I would not be surprised in the slightest to find out that is involved in Cersei's downfall. At the least, he'll look the other way.

Here are two ideas from a co-worker. He just finished AFFC last week. At least you guys only have to see my posts here... and you can scroll on by. My poor friend has been trapped with me for five years listening to my theories and my sermons.

Anyway... Here's his first idea. Tommen will figure decisively in Cersei's downfall. Tommen could be called the little brother. But my friend is certain that someone will hand Tommen a parchment for him to affix his seal and little Tommen will unknowingly sign Cersei's death warrant.

The second idea is that the current High Septon is the valonqar. He was a sparrow. He's a little brother... a little brother of the poor.

Usually, I'd pass on these ideas as my own, but I've a feeling that he might soon join us here in the Chronicles.
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I like the Tommen theory much better than the High Septon one.

I don't think it's Tyrion, never have. It's just too obvious and inelegant. GRRM is better than that.

DOes anyone remember if Jaime or Cersei was born first?
 
Let's not forget that although the direct translation of 'valonqar' may be 'little brother', this is not necessarily how it might be used in context. 'The valonqar' sounds much more like a title to me... Maybe it is a title of rank among the Faceless men, or within a religious order?

In my pet theory that Sandor Clegane will be the Seven's champion against unGregor at Cersei's trial by combat, I could well imagine the Faith's Champion being dubbed the 'Little Brother'.

We might also consider that to 'wrap his hands around' someone's neck might be a figurative reference, rather than literal.
 
The Imp said:
I like the Tommen theory much better than the High Septon one.

I don't think it's Tyrion, never have. It's just too obvious and inelegant. GRRM is better than that.

DOes anyone remember if Jaime or Cersei was born first?
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I actually like the High Septon as the Little Brother better than Tommen! It crossed my mind when reading AFfC that any one of those religious zealots overtaking Kings Landing could be the one (with Lancel as a favourite too).

Cersei was born first, with Jaime supposedly born clutching her foot, so Jaime definitely is a little brother.
 
Mesanna said:
I actually like the High Septon as the Little Brother better than Tommen! It crossed my mind when reading AFfC that any one of those religious zealots overtaking Kings Landing could be the one (with Lancel as a favourite too).

Cersei was born first, with Jaime supposedly born clutching her foot, so Jaime definitely is a little brother.
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Right, Jamime was second.

The High Septon isn't a brother anymore though, and I think that he COULD be used as the Valonqar, doing so would be, in my estimation, extremely cheesy. I like the Tommen theory because he actually is a little borther and also Cersei's blood. It would be so GRRMish to have Tommen unwittingly "sign" the death order for his mother.
 
Does the Valonqar do the strangling? Because Tommen has small, podgy hands. I would like to see an outburst from Tommen though. Releasing his inner Joffrey.
"You put Maergery in the dungeon, Mother. I'm gonna kill you!"
 
southron sword said:
Does the Valonqar do the strangling? Because Tommen has small, podgy hands. I would like to see an outburst from Tommen though. Releasing his inner Joffrey.
"You put Maergery in the dungeon, Mother. I'm gonna kill you!"
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The strangling part is problematic. I hadn't thought about that.
 
I agree with a few things said so far:
1) It might not be literal strangling. It might be a sensation not unlike strangling. As such, I wouldn't discount the Tears of Lys.
2) As much crap as Tyrion had to put up with over the years from his siblings, I do not believe he would actually kill his sister. His father was obviously a different person. Harder in certain ways. But remember that scene where Cersei begged Jaime to stay, I think when he was called to the Kingsguard? Tywin never begged like that. Never. Ever. Ver. Er. R.
 
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