The Valonqar

Thing is, Cersei is sure it's Tyrion, and so he is nearly everyone's first suspect. But Cersei thinks Tyrion killed Joffrey, then Tywin and either her or Tommen will be next. When really we know that it was not Tyrion behind Joff's murder and he only killed Tywin because Jaime told him that Tysha wasn't really a whore etc.
I highly doubt that Tyrion would kill Cersei and definately not Tommen (Poor kid) but I'm really looking forward to reading more about him in ADWD.. he's quite a character. heh heh
 
Agree about Tyrion, Nightstalker! I haven't read any of the ADwD preview chapters, so I can't wait to read Tyrion's thoughts on his actions, once he has had the chance to cool down somewhat. Tyrion has been bullied and punished his whole life by his father and I think he just couldn't hold himself back when he found out about Tysha. I don't see him killing Cersei unless he was under huge emotional stress again (like, maybe he fell in love with someone and Cersei tried to have her killed). I don't believe Tyrion would harm Tommen or Myrcella, at least not while they're too young to plot against him!!

Nah, it's Jaime all the way for the Valonqar. The signs are all there. His relationship with Cersei's going down faster than a lead balloon and she's losing her marbles at a frightening rate. I reckon she'll somehow wangle her way out of jail, only to make an even bigger f**k-up of things, which will result in Jaime killing her. And I think, even though he doesn't love her the way he did, her death will destroy him too. [Wipes a tear for poor Jaime!] :(
 
I quite agree with you Mesanna, it's all just a massive tumble of upsy-downsy emotions really :'D and Jaime definately knows she's F---ing things up, I find it hilarious that in Cersei's PoV she thinks Jaime is at her beck and call (aloong with every other male) and will save her if she tells him she loves him (three times to be exact) yet all Jaime does is toss the letter into the fire.. Good lad :D
 
Thing is, Cersei is sure it's Tyrion, and so he is nearly everyone's first suspect
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One of my guiding lights about this is that whatever Cersei believes is almost certainly wrong. So the fact that everyone's favorite queen is convinced he's the one argues pretty strongly in Jaime's favor to my mind.

I think the more interesting question is what will drive Jaime to do it, far more then if he's one. The image of his golden hand against her pale white throat is, in itself, too good to pass up.
 
IlliferThePenniless said:
I think the more interesting question is what will drive Jaime to do it, far more then if he's one. The image of his golden hand against her pale white throat is, in itself, too good to pass up.
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Agree that the "Why" is most interesting. It can't be Cersei's infidelities, as he seems merely disgusted, rather than murderous over that. Maybe Cersei will do something that will bring about the death of Tommen, which enrages Jaime, but he hasn't taken a great deal of interest in the kids so far. Cersei is already offering a bounty for Tyrion's head, so it can't be a plot to kill Tyrion (though, does Jaime know she is doing this? I can't remember.)

Anyone else got any theories on this? Jaime is my fav character and I love to hear others' interpretations of his actions.
 
I feel like Jaime's (as with a lot of other characters') loyalties are going to drastically shift sometime in the future. They've started swinging, but it's hard to see (for me, anyway...there're people on this forum who are much better at disecting it) where they'll settle. Whether that's due to a new love interest or a new ruler (or some other reason) I'm not sure. I think that whoever wins Jaime's subservience will either be targeted by Cersei (if she has any authority left) or want to target Cersei themself. Setting Jaime against his twin sister would seem a pretty definitive test of loyalty.
 
That's kind of what I was thinking, but I can't see how that's going to throw Jaime into enough conflict with Cersei that he kills her. Unless she spurs him to it with cruel japes.

Are Cersei and Jaime past the point of being jealous of one another's lovers?
 
Jaime hasn't actually had other lovers, so it's unlikely that Cersei is past him having any. Jaime doesn't seem able to get past Cersei having other lovers. He continues to dwell on Tyion's accusation that she was involved with Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack, and possibly Moon Boy... Thoughts like that tend to fester.

Reminds me of that Hendrix song Hey Joe
or maybe that Sound Garden song Burden In My Hand
 
digs said:
That's kind of what I was thinking, but I can't see how that's going to throw Jaime into enough conflict with Cersei that he kills her. Unless she spurs him to it with cruel japes.

Are Cersei and Jaime past the point of being jealous of one another's lovers?
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Well, Jaime went back to save Brienne when she was in the bear pit, he didn't even know why. And he sent her off to search for Sansa and protect her and since Cersei is convinced that Sansa had a part in Joffrey's death anyone helping her is most likely to be killed if Cersei gets her hands on them. So, what if she has no idea that Jaime and Brienne even know each other, but threatens Brienne's life for being 'a traitor'. Could that push Jaime enough to do it?
Of course I am waiting to see what happens to Cersei since she's locked up atm and Brienne's life is supposedly hanging from a tight rope.
:eek::eek::eek:
 
Does that mean that I can't order any more Tears of Lys on-line?
 
C Of K said:
Jaime hasn't actually had other lovers, so it's unlikely that Cersei is past him having any. Jaime doesn't seem able to get past Cersei having other lovers. He continues to dwell on Tyion's accusation that she was involved with Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack, and possibly Moon Boy... Thoughts like that tend to fester.

Reminds me of that Hendrix song Hey Joe
or maybe that Sound Garden song Burden In My Hand
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I would say Jaime certainly continues to be emotionally affected by Cersei's betrayals, but I'm not sure I would say he is festering on it (now Tyrion, on the other hand, is definitely a "festerer" <-- is that a word :confused:)

I know Jaime's character has been changing and maturing over the series, but one of his defining characteristics was that he reacted immediately to events without thought of consequences (like chucking Bran out the window, instead of frightening him into silence as Cersei would have done). I rather think if Jaime was going to murder over Cersei's two-timing, he would have done it already. Even if he couldn't bring himself to hurt Cersei, I would have thought Lancel would have been in deep pooh. But Jaime hasn't killed anyone so far over this, and I believe he is beginning to move on.

Now Cersei, oh yeah, I can picture her flying into a jealous murderous rage oh so easily. The thought of her finding out she'd been replaced by big, mannish, not-very-attractive Brienne is priceless actually! :D
 
I believe that makes Tyrion, "uncle festerer". :)

It is so Mesanna. GRRM definitely makes a point of Jaime undergoing a change of heart, with all that washing on the river, and saving Brienne. But could he change sides completely and kill Cersei if she were to be doing something particularly heinous(and it isn't so unlikely), like make a bad joke?
 
Uncle Festerer! LMAO! :D:D:D

I believe Jaime could (and will) kill Cersei, and her actions will push him to it. I just don't think it's the fact that she's been sleeping around that will be the cause. I think Cersei may hurt someone Jaime cares about (maybe Brienne or Tyrion, or maybe someone new that he meets in the next book or two) and this will send him over the edge. I'm trying to think of other scenarios that could set them against each other, aside from my loony theory where Jaime ends up with Dany - that would definitely set him on opposite sides to Cersei! :D
 
Mesanna said:
I would say Jaime certainly continues to be emotionally affected by Cersei's betrayals, but I'm not sure I would say he is festering on it (now Tyrion, on the other hand, is definitely a "festerer" <-- is that a word :confused:)

I know Jaime's character has been changing and maturing over the series, but one of his defining characteristics was that he reacted immediately to events without thought of consequences (like chucking Bran out the window, instead of frightening him into silence as Cersei would have done). I rather think if Jaime was going to murder over Cersei's two-timing, he would have done it already. Even if he couldn't bring himself to hurt Cersei, I would have thought Lancel would have been in deep pooh. But Jaime hasn't killed anyone so far over this, and I believe he is beginning to move on.

Now Cersei, oh yeah, I can picture her flying into a jealous murderous rage oh so easily. The thought of her finding out she'd been replaced by big, mannish, not-very-attractive Brienne is priceless actually! :D
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Jaime actually has become a more contemplative individual as of late. He hasn't plotted Cersei's death, true enough, but he has contemplated taking Tommen away from her. I imagine if he ever did try anything along those lines, it wouldn't go over too well with her. But her sleeping around has definitely been a part of what is causing him to turn against her.
 
C Of K said:
Jaime actually has become a more contemplative individual as of late. He hasn't plotted Cersei's death, true enough, but he has contemplated taking Tommen away from her. I imagine if he ever did try anything along those lines, it wouldn't go over too well with her. But her sleeping around has definitely been a part of what is causing him to turn against her.
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Oh I agree completely that her cheating has definitely caused him to look at her in a new light and reassess their relationship. I just think Jaime is becoming more distant and colder toward her, rather than being inflamed with the jealous rage that would be needed for a crime passionel. The Jaime of GoT, if he discovered her cheating, would have killed her lover instantly (I don't think he would have killed her, but it may depend on the circumstances). But the Jaime of AFfC definitely has cooled his feelings considerably.

It will be interesting to see how their story plays out. I can easily see new sensitive Jaime wanting to be more of a father/uncle to Tommen after seeing how Cersei ruined Joffrey and that might be developed in future books. Cersei would be seriously unhappy at losing control over King Tommen. There are definitely fireworks ahead for those two and I can't wait to see what happens! :D
 
Yeah, same here. Whatever does happen, I do hope Tommen lives through this. The kid is almost too goodhearted to live in Westeros, especially as a king, which has me worried. If push comes to shove, there really is no one to protect him.
 
Perhaps someone will tell Cersei (paranoia or what) that to save Myrcella and Tommen, and prevent the fullfillment of the prophecy, she can off herself. Having another child would upset the applecart, too. Niether of those seem likely, so I don't imagine that little Tommen is going to make it.:(
 
Yeah you can't help but feel for Tommen. He is too sweet for words. Prophecies often never quite turn out the way you expect though, and given GRRM's devious twisty-turny mind, maybe there's hope.
 
C Of K said:
Yeah, same here. Whatever does happen, I do hope Tommen lives through this. The kid is almost too goodhearted to live in Westeros, especially as a king, which has me worried. If push comes to shove, there really is no one to protect him.
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Well, as Lord Commander, Jaime will be there. But then again if push comes to shove... better not to have Jaime there.
 
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